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What Jesus Really Meant by Compassion | Guest: Daniel Borge

• Kayley Bishop

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When Jesus felt compassion, it wasn’t pity. It was power.

In this episode, I sit down with my friend Daniel Borge, a Spirit-filled Norwegian with the kind of honesty and humor that hits you right in the heart. Together, we unpack the Greek word splagchnizomai, that gut-level compassion Jesus felt that always moved Him to action.

We talk about the difference between enabling and empowering, flesh-based kindness versus Holy Spirit love, and how seeing ourselves as “Christian” can get twisted by self-judgment instead of God’s voice. Daniel shares about learning to show compassion in truth, and I open up about the times I’ve gotten it wrong, when my “kindness” came from a need for validation instead of obedience.

If you’ve ever wondered what Jesus really meant when He felt compassion, this conversation will bring clarity and conviction in the best way. 🕊️



Thanks for tuning in to Bible Bish!

Come for the tea, stay for the truth -you just might leave changed. 🕊️

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Daniel:

the difference between Jesus and us, we can have compassion, but we just, there's no action . So we just. Move on.

Kayley:

If you operate outside of God's depiction and definition of compassion, you will find yourself showing compassion, that is laced with pity and that gleans no transformation. Wow. Hello. Thank you for joining Bible Bish. I am so glad to be back in the studio. It's been a few months. I was in Japan over the summer, but I'm back and I've got a great friend that I have made. His name is Daniel Borge, he's actually Norwegian, and that's how you pronounce it. If you're Norwegian. Daniel Borge. Yes. But if you're American like me, you can just say Daniel Borge.

Daniel:

Sounds good.

Kayley:

He, he will respond to that one too. Uh, he's a great friend of mine. We've played music and we've gone on tour all over Norway together, and he's actually here in Nashville right now. And I wanted to capitalize on this moment and get you in the studio and we're gonna talk about compassion. Daniel is super Spirit filled. We have the most beautiful revelatory conversations when we're on the road, and I wanted to bring that here for you guys to listen to. So we're gonna talk about compassion, and before we get started, I actually wanna give you a definition of compassion, but specifically the Greek version. The Greek word is, I'm not gonna pronounce this very well at all. It's fine. It's splagchnizomai

Daniel:

Yeah, probably that's, yeah. You didn't pronounce it any good at all?

Kayley:

No, I didn't. That was quite horrendous. I'm actually really good at pronunciation. Splagchnizomai Mm-hmm. Um, it's a word used in the gospels to describe Jesus's compassion. It's not just a surface feeling, it's a deep, visceral response, like your guts twisting inside you. That's kind of nuts. This is the kind of compassion Jesus showed, and it always moved him to action. Whether he was healing the sick, feeding the hungry, or teaching the lost. It wasn't just a feeling of feeling sorry for someone, it was seeing their need and being so deeply moved that he had to step in and meet that need. That's kind of a, that's wild to me.

Daniel:

Yeah. Yes,

Kayley:

and I think, anyway, so let's just, let's just dive right in. Daniel, I want you to give me your definition of compassion as you have lived it out in your life up to this point.

Daniel:

Uh, yeah. Uh, for me, I think, uh, as a person, uh, compassion just comes naturally to me.

Kayley:

Oh,

Daniel:

yeah. I feel like sometimes it's maybe too much. Okay. Um, I have to think about what the word means, but, uh, I feel like it's empathy a word you have in, uh.

Kayley:

Yeah. Empathy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Daniel:

yeah. It's kind of the same thing.

Kayley:

Okay.

Daniel:

Yeah. So sometimes it's um, when you have too much empathy mm-hmm. It might, uh, it might be harder to make decisions.

Kayley:

Okay.

Daniel:

Business wise.

Kayley:

Business wise, yeah. Interesting.

Daniel:

For example you have a business and you have a guy working for you, and he's just doing all the wrong things. Okay. And you ask him again and again and did, he just can't do what you ask him to do, and then. Suddenly you maybe have to fire him or something like that. Yeah, but I can't do that. I have too much.

Kayley:

You can't fire someone

Daniel:

No, I have too much compassion.

Kayley:

Wait, so what do you do? Can, do you have an example of this?

Daniel:

Uh, yeah, I have, but I,

Kayley:

tell me, give me a story. I wanna hear about this.

Daniel:

Yeah. So I have this guy working for me and, um, uh, I'm, I'm his boss boss, or I was his boss and I told him what to do and he didn't do it. And, uh, the thing that happened was that he just refused doing things. Like, uh, I'm also working as a roofer.

Kayley:

Okay.

Daniel:

So if, if it was cold outside or if it was raining, he was like, no, I don't wanna do that today. And I was like, you have to. It's your job. And he was like, no, no, not today. Yeah, I know. And then I was like, angry. And of course you have to do that. But then I was started thinking about his family, his wife, his kids. What will happen to him if I fire him? But that's too much.

Kayley:

That's too much.

Daniel:

It's too much. So you have to learn how to have a balance.

Kayley:

Well, what happened? Did you end up letting him go?

Daniel:

He, uh, yeah, I had to.

Kayley:

And how did that conversation go?

Daniel:

The, the problem was, yeah, the problem is that when you push it too far, yeah. Then I get angry and then I do it, you know, in a angry situation and that's not how you're supposed to do it. So, uh, that's what that We're best friends now.

Kayley:

You're best friends now?

Daniel:

Yeah. Oh, but he's not working for me anymore.

Kayley:

He's not working for you?

Daniel:

No.

Kayley:

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I think what you just described is your version of compassion.

Daniel:

Yeah. Right. Probably

Kayley:

versus like Holy Spirit's version of compassion.

Daniel:

That's something totally different. Yeah.

Kayley:

So I want you to give me what, what is your idea of the difference between Holy Spirit's, compassion and like IE Jesus or Holy Spirit's compassion and your version of compassion?

Daniel:

I feel like, um. The compassion that the Holy Spirit gives of Jesus gives, without saying anything wrong right now, but it's not always fair. Like, it's not always just

Kayley:

what, what do you mean? It's like, what do you mean it's not fair or just,

Daniel:

uh, because, um, we are not, we, we doesn't deserve everything God gives us.

Kayley:

Oh, I understand. He doesn't, yeah.

Daniel:

We doesn't deserve, uh, forgiveness and all that. Right. But he gives that anyways. Mm-hmm. Because of his compassion to us.

Kayley:

Of course.

Daniel:

So if it would be like, this is how he's supposed to be. Mm. We would never, ever got to get saved. Stuff like that.

Kayley:

Of course, of course.

Daniel:

But it because of what Jesus did on the cross. Yeah. And that's compassion. Mm-hmm. For us. So it's not always this is have to, this is how it should be. Yeah. But because of his compassion and his love for us, we get to do that anyways.

Kayley:

Yeah. That's so good. I was kind of doing a little bit of research on compassion and what really is the difference between my human compassion and the compassion that Jesus shows. But there's a, there's a passage of scripture and it's.

It's Matthew 9:

36. And just to give some context, I'll read 35 says, Jesus walked throughout the region with the joyful message of God's kingdom realm. He taught in their meeting houses and wherever he went, he demonstrated God's power by healing every kind of disease and illness. When he saw the vast crowds of people, Jesus's heart was deeply moved with compassion because they seemed weary and helpless, like wandering sheep without a shepherd. He turned to his disciples and he said, the harvest is huge and ripe. But there are not enough harvesters to bring it all in. As you go, plead with the owner of the harvest, IE God, to thrust out many more reapers to harvest this grain. And so we see here, like his heart was moved because the crowd, they were wondering sheep without a shepherd. I mean, can you imagine sheep without a shepherd? That's some serious compassion. And it moved him to action. And it wasn't based on, um, what Jesus wanted for himself. Because when I think about the times that I've been compassionate, sometimes it's based on my own emotions. Mm-hmm. And like, okay, I feel, I feel sad and I want someone I don't know to do something for me. So I'll feel bad for them so that they see I feel bad and maybe they'll like me. Does that make sense?

Daniel:

Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh, men like human being. That's,

Kayley:

that's human.

Daniel:

Exactly. Yeah.

Kayley:

But like I, Jesus, there's not a point in scripture where Jesus did something so that people would like him.

Daniel:

No, it's not

Kayley:

more so I want you to follow me, and if you follow me, you'll have eternal life. Yeah. It's not about following me to follow me, it's about following me, so that you can have freedom and you can come back to life. You can be alive. Mm-hmm. And so anyway, I just, I think that's a beautiful idea of, okay, maybe my version of compassion is rooted in my emotions, but I wanna hear from you 'cause you say that you're naturally really good at being compassionate. I wanna hear from you where compassion is challenging.

Daniel:

Oh yeah. Yes. Um, to be honest, like there's, um, when. Yes. Like I just told you, like my, when my compassion comes between what's right and wrong.

Kayley:

Oh, okay.

Daniel:

Yeah. That's the, I, I, I find it hard to like let people down. Oh, okay. And that's also a big opposite from Jesus. Yeah. Because he didn't care if he let them down because he just told them this is righteous. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, um. I've been thinking a lot about the Prodigal son. Yeah. Uh, I think it's in Luke 15. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kayley:

Maybe. I don't know. I need to reference it. Yeah.

Daniel:

It's in there somewhere. the thing right there is, there was this man that had two sons. Mm-hmm. One of them left and did all the things wrong.

Kayley:

Yes.

Daniel:

Everything was so bad he moved to another country. And, uh, it, it was a sinful country, and that's where he lived and that's where he stayed. Uh, and so many times we hear the story about him. Mm-hmm. How, uh, many things he did bad and yeah. Yeah. He, he was awful. Yeah. And then he found himself

Kayley:

Yeah.

Daniel:

And then he came back. Yeah. not so often. Do people talk about, or think about the son that was left behind or stayed with his daddy?

Kayley:

Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel:

The thing that I've been thinking about is that we can all see people that are doing sin sinful things mm-hmm. That you can see with your eyes.

Kayley:

Yes.

Daniel:

But the son that was, uh, with his dad, he have a lot of sinful thoughts that nobody could see.

Kayley:

Yeah. Oof.

Daniel:

Yeah. I know. So the thing is, yeah, I think there's a lot of people that, that feel like I'm doing everything right. Yeah. Like every, I, I've been following the rules.

Kayley:

Yeah.

Daniel:

But many times I think it's harder for them to understand that they need Jesus. Mm. Because they're perfect in any way.

Kayley:

Well, 'cause they're earning it through their human strength.

Daniel:

Exactly. And also I think it's harder for them to find compassion because they haven't been there.

Kayley:

Mm. They haven't needed compassion shown to them.

Daniel:

Exactly.

Kayley:

So it's harder for them to show compassion to others. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah. Also in a lot of churches around. I think a lot of times that's a thing that is bigger than many think about because there are people that are doing everything perfect. Yeah. And you can't see the sin on them. Mm. But then you have people like me that doing wrong things all the time and, uh, but for me, I don't have a problem to say that. I am, I'm, I'm sinning every day. I'm, I'm doing so much wrong and I need Jesus.

Kayley:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Because if not, if I don't have Jesus, I'm nothing. Mm-hmm. When there are people that almost like they, I'm, I'm actually, I'm good enough. Mm-hmm. But it is good to have Jesus too. But you know what I mean?

Kayley:

You know, I, I feel like I relate to the son that was left behind, that didn't go and wander astray.'cause I have a pretty clean track record. Uh, which is why when my whole life fell apart, I didn't understand who I was. I had a complete identity crisis, and as a result, a flood of compassion has entered and I feel compassion for people. Uh, but I still relate to the son that stayed behind because I have done so much of trying to earn things through my own strength and in that you almost carry a spirit of judgment of you are kind of judging yourself based on your abilities and your achievements, and that naturally bleeds over to judging others for how they're not achieving or they're lazy or whatever. And I still think I struggle with that a little bit. Um, even though I have so much more empathy and compassion for people, I still struggle with this, I think spirit of judgment specifically for myself. But if I'm judging myself, which is, it's not my role. I need to completely give that over to the Lord. It's all ego and pride.'cause I am not God, nor do I wanna be God and nor do I wanna be a judge. Uh, but it's like that inner dialogue of like self hatred or frustration with myself for not performing well. And God's been doing a completely new thing in my life lately where he's like, I'm gonna root this out of you and show you that th through. I've been, I've been. Exhausted. And if I'm exhausted, I can't perform and I can't produce, and if I can't produce, then it's like, well, am I worthy? Am I like valuable? Mm-hmm. Am I valuable at all? And if so, like I've equated my value to being productive. And that's not what God is saying or wanting for me. And so I've had to like let that go and I think he's rooting out that spirit of judgment in me through that process of why don't, in your exhaustion, why don't you just remain in me and start, start being a human being instead of a human doing? Yeah. And get your value from what I say instead of what you do. Mm-hmm. And that's been a, a hard thing for me to understand and really walk out because you can hear it, but that doesn't mean you're walking it out well. True. Um, so I'm glad you brought up the prodigal son.'cause I kind of relate to him. I have compassion for him.

Daniel:

Exactly. But that's it. Like people that you can relate to Yeah. May be sometimes easier to have compassion to. Yeah. And that's why I put Jesus so high, because Jesus never done anything wrong. He was perfect in any way. Yeah. And still he cried.

Kayley:

Yeah.

Daniel:

Among people. Like when Lazarus was dead. Yeah. He cried. Mm. Even if he knew that he was gonna rise again. Yeah. He, he felt for them. Yeah. He felt their sorrow. Mm-hmm. So, uh, yeah. I think, uh, compassion is, uh, is a thing that is very deep. Yeah. To understand how to use it in the right ways.

Kayley:

You just, but you just touched on something, use it.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Kayley:

Can, do you think it's possible to show compassion without taking action?

Daniel:

Mm. That's a good question.

Kayley:

I mean, 'cause when Jesus had compassion, it moved him to action. Yeah. He saw the need that the people needed a shepherd, and then immediately was like, we need more laborers to go disciple these people. I mean, I always go back to that scripture where Jesus gave us the great commission, which is to go and make disciples of the nations. He didn't say, go make believers. No, go convert people. He said, go make disciples. And a disciple is someone who follows. Yeah. And if you're following Jesus, then your whole life changes. And if you're following Jesus, that means you have a shepherd. Yeah. I think there are a lot of sheep that believe in Jesus. Mm-hmm. But don't actually belong in a flock.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Kayley:

And maybe I think that's the difference in that commission of go make disciples,

Daniel:

but maybe that's also the difference between Jesus and us, that maybe we can have compassion, but we just, there's no action in what we're thinking. So we just. Move on.

Kayley:

Exactly. Yeah. So that's not, that's not Jesus. That's not Jesus and it's not Holy Spirit, so that's flesh.

Daniel:

Oh yeah.

Kayley:

That's a human version of compassion. Mm-hmm. I think we naturally feel pity, but compassion is not pity. No. You can pity somebody and not do anything about it. Yeah. Just feel bad for them. Yeah. I mean, how many people scroll on on Instagram or TikTok and they see all these sad videos and you're like, oh. Or like you, the Sarah McLaughlin in the arms of an angel and you see all the, the dogs that are dying and you just scroll right past it. You feel bad for like five minutes. Yeah, that's true. You scroll past and do nothing about it.

Daniel:

Ex. Exactly. You just don't care. What would Jesus, do you care for a while? Yeah.

Kayley:

Jesus would start a foundation and he would go knock on door to door collecting money for it.

Daniel:

Exactly. Yeah.

Kayley:

And make sure that every dog never went hungry again.

Daniel:

Exactly. That's what he would.

Kayley:

And if he can do that for a dog, how much more would he be doing it for the people made in his image? Yeah. For his children, for his flock, for his sheep.

Daniel:

Exactly. Exactly. And that's, that's, that's the difference. And also we should be more like Jesus. Uh, so maybe we should act more Yeah. On what we're feeling when it comes to compassion, that's good. Well, what you were just saying about trying your best to do what Jesus wants.

Kayley:

Yeah.

Daniel:

That's of course a good thing. Mm-hmm. But also if you're focusing too much about acts. Mm. that can be a trap for you. Yeah. That's what I felt. Yeah. And that's what I, why I, for a while I didn't feel like I was worthy Mm. To actually be called a Christian anymore.

Kayley:

Really?

Daniel:

Yeah. Because of that, there, there are rules. Mm-hmm. And you follow them. Mm-hmm. Try to follow them. Mm-hmm. And then, uh. The adversary, is that what it called?

Kayley:

Yeah. The adversary.

Daniel:

Yep. Uh, he's always reminding you of everything that you've done wrong. Yeah. And he's saying, do that, do that, do that. And when you do it, he's like, why did you do that? Oof. Yeah. And also, if that's your focus on never do anything wrong. Yeah. And you use your hand to like make your life worthy. Yeah. Then you can't let, you should rather let Jesus use his hand to make you worthy, because as soon as you use your hand.

Kayley:

You. You're gonna fail.

Daniel:

You're gonna fail.

Kayley:

It's not gonna look good.

Daniel:

And that's what the adversary wants you to do.

Kayley:

It's gonna be the difference between like a five-year-old making a drawing and Picasso, or like, yeah, like Leonardo da Vinci making a painting. That's how difference it is between you trying to make yourself worthy and Jesus making you.

Daniel:

Yeah, it, it won't even be a picture.

Kayley:

It won't even be, it's just like scribble,

Daniel:

it's like painting without a brush, you know? Yeah.

Kayley:

Okay. So when did that change for you? When did you. Uh, when did you go from, oh, I'm not even worthy to be a Christian because of all my issues, to realizing that it was the adversary spreading lies.

Daniel:

It, to be totally, uh, totally honest. It was actually after I met you and, uh, legacy the church. Mm. And Christian people in the US. I'm from Norway and where, uh, where I'm from, I'm not saying that the people there are judgemental. Mm-hmm. But I think I was Mm. And I actually judged other people too. Mm. and myself and I felt like you can't do that. Uh, are you really a Christian? You can't do that, or this or that, or whatever. And when I came to the US there was, I, I, I didn't feel the same judgmental people that I met back in Norway, but later I understood that it, it might not be the people that I, that, that are in my country. It was me.

Kayley:

Wow.

Daniel:

I was the one that judging. But when I came here, I saw that, uh, the people are more open-minded. Yeah. So they, I felt like I could actually say that I'm a Christian. I was allowed to say that I'm a Christian. Wow. And when you're allowed to say that you're a Christian, that's what you wanna do. Because if you always tell people that what you're doing right now is wrong, they don't care about anything, they will just drop it all.

Kayley:

So is it more so like the way you were living your life in Norway? Yeah. And then to say you were a Christian that felt hypocritical?

Daniel:

Exactly. Okay. But also because I wouldn't say that I could say that I was a Christian the way I lived my life.

Kayley:

Yeah,

Daniel:

but that was be because of what people told me early on. So that's what I'm saying. If I tell you that your Christian life right now is not enough Mm. Then why should you pray? Why should you read the Bible anymore? Why should you do anything at all?

Kayley:

Where did that start for you?

Daniel:

I think it started with that I wasn't good enough. Like, um,

Kayley:

like you weren't good enough. Like who, who told you that you weren't good enough? Who told you that you were a bad Christian?

Daniel:

Actually nobody did, I think,

Kayley:

did the devil?

Daniel:

That's, yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I, I'm not blaming the people in Norway or at all. Uh, and also there's a lot of really nice churches over there, and I think, I don't think it was the people there. I think maybe it was myself that judged myself so bad because I looked at the other people in the church and they were so good. Okay. And I felt like I couldn't reach them. Mm. and also, uh, there are a lot of. I feel a lot of judgmental things going on in the church. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm, I'm trying to weigh what I'm saying right now.

Kayley:

Yeah. You're trying to like, okay. You don't wanna ruffle any feathers, I get it.

Daniel:

Exactly. Yeah.

Kayley:

Okay, so let me, let me take it back to compassion real quick.'cause I did ask you before, where is it hard for you to show compassion? And I'm wondering now if the hardest person to show compassion for was yourself.

Daniel:

Yeah, probably. That's might be one of my biggest issues. Yeah.

Kayley:

Okay. Yeah. So you're, it's easy to show compassion for other people more so easy to show compassion that's from the flesh, not from the Holy Spirit. Mm-hmm. If you're, I mean,'cause I'm the same way. I will enable, actually I have a story about enabling somebody. I remember, gosh, I was, I was playing downtown Nashville a lot and I had this pretty regular gig and I also had a buddy of mine who was really talented. And I thought to myself, you know, he really needs some money. Why don't I just add him to my gig? They're not gonna pay me any more. That means I'll end up earning less 'cause. But I was willing to do that. I was willing to bring him on, not get paid any more by the venue, and just pay him out of what I was earning, just so that he could earn some money. And I did that for a long time and he didn't have a car. And I would even go pick him up, take him to the show, drop him back off. I mean, I was just doing everything for this guy, giving him random money too, just to help him.'cause I believed in him. I believed in him so much. Yeah. And I remember years later, I just heard this word and it was, Jesus calls you to give to the poor and the destitute, not to the lazy. And I was like. Wow. I totally just enabled this guy because it wasn't the Holy Spirit nudging me to go out on a limb to help him. It totally was just my own feelings, and the truth of the matter is nothing I did changed him. It didn't change the way he lived. It didn't change his process. It didn't give him a leg up out of his circumstances, it just kept him in his circumstances. Yeah. And that's when you know it's human compassion versus the compassion of the Holy Spirit. Because when I'm operating out of Jesus's compassion, there actually is transformation.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Kayley:

I think that is a mark of knowing I'm not operating in my flesh right now. And you can see the fruit of it. There's fruit when you're walking in the compassion of Jesus. Mm-hmm. anyway, I just, I just thought of that so. If you're out there listening and you've enabled somebody, I enabled them first.

Daniel:

Yeah. But it's also what you're saying right there is that, um, for something to start grow, it has to be crushed first. Uh, yeah. Like a seed. It has to go into the ground. It has to be crushed before it can boom. Yeah.

Kayley:

Wine. Yeah. Wine do you have to crush the grape?

Daniel:

I think it's because it's, uh, preparing you for what you're about to face. Yeah. As you have to go a lot of times through hard times. Yeah. Uh, before, uh, you reach the good times. And, um, but the thing is, I think a lot of people like to be in the crushed state. Because then they're in a victimized position.

Kayley:

Yes.

Daniel:

That everybody want to help them. Yes. And they're saying, poor me, poor me. Can you help me? Yes. And they will never get out of that phase until you start making them grow. Yeah. you just keep them there, nothing will happen.

Kayley:

Well then, now here's another question. Is compassion telling the truth?

Daniel:

Yeah. Always.

Kayley:

Always? Yeah. Have you had to deliver the truth? Before.

Daniel:

Yes. And that's also, that's also the difference between Jesus and me because what's, same idea,

Kayley:

the difference between Jesus and me, that's a good song title. Nobody take that. We're gonna write that. Me and Dan are gonna write that.

Daniel:

But as we're speaking about compassion right now, the word actually reveals itself more and more. And also what I said earlier on is that I have so much compassion. Maybe I don't. Maybe I just want to make people like me better. Oof. Yeah. I think that's might be the thing about me. Yeah. Because it's hard to tell the truth. Mm. Because then they won't like me anymore. Mm. That's not compassion

Kayley:

and that's not Jesus.

Daniel:

Exactly. That's me.

Kayley:

But it's so true. We, we do that. I so. Switching gears a little bit. Um, I ended up doing a deliverance session recently and before people like hang up the phone or turn this podcast off. I'm gonna explain the deliverance session because I think it's something that we all should kind of be partaking in if we're a Christian walking with the Lord. And it starts with the Lord's Prayer. It's like, um, uh. What's the beginning of the Lord's Prayer? Why am I blanking on it? Oh, father, who art in heaven father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. The kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us a day our daily bread and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Mm-hmm. And I keep thinking about the Lord's Prayer. When the disciples came to Jesus and said, teach us how to pray, he said, deliver us from evil. And so if we're following the Lord. And we're walking with him, we're following his ways, and he's telling us to daily pray to deliver us from evil. Then there's something to that, and I think about deliverance, similar to going to the doctor. So as humans, we are soul, body and spirit. We've got our bodies. We go to the doctors for our bodies, for our souls, which is our mind will and emotions. We go see psychiatrists, we go see therapists. We do all of that, but are we really doing anything for our spirit? Mm-hmm. If you're, if you're a faithful believer, you know that we don't fight against flesh and blood, but the spirits and principalities of the unseen realm. Yeah. So what are we doing for our spiritual health, um, beyond prayer? And maybe, are we praying the right way? Yeah, because I think we should be, I mean the, Jesus gave us power in his death and resurrection. We have power to vanquish the, the, the schemes of the devil just in rebuking and saying, and decreeing and declaring and um, anyway, so in this deliverance session, which is basically what that is, you, I, I went in and you do a lot of like breaking of agreements of like, yes, I agreed with the enemy that I am always a problem. I made that agreement. My ex-husband told me I was always the problem. The next roommate I had after that always said I was the problem. So clearly I'm the problem, but that was totally in agreement with the enemy. And so you have to go and you have to break that off. And in this specific deliverance session. The team that I was with, they were interceding for me. They were also praying to Holy Spirit praying with Holy Spirit on my behalf. And they asked me, they said, Kayley, will you ask Jesus what your opposition is in this scenario that you need breakthrough in? I said, okay. So I asked the Lord, what's my opposition? And he said, kindness. I'm like, okay, make that make sense because kindness is a fruit of the spirit. So. Why would kindness be my opposition? Mm-hmm. And then I realized through our discussion and the the session itself, I was brought back to a memory of my mother where she taught me to "kill'em with kindness", which I don't know if you have a phrase like that in Norway, but here

Daniel:

I don't think so.

Kayley:

Yeah. It just means like. If someone has a harder shell or if someone, if someone is mean, you break'em down with kindness. Yeah. You, you, you show kindness to get them to be like pliable and malleable and happy or whatever. And my mom taught me that at a young age, and I realized my whole life I've been walking with this concept of kill him with kindness. And I had to learn in that session. I, I did learn that I have been operating my whole life in kindness from the flesh. Versus the Lord's version of kindness, because God has a boundary line for his kindness. And if you cross outta that boundary line for his kindness, that's when you start using kindness to manipulate, control, enable, um, protect yourself, seek validation. And I was using kindness for all of those things. So no wonder I was exhausted and tired. Anyway, this is a long spiel of me talking about this deliverance leading to kindness. But it, to me, I hear the same thing with compassion. Because if you operate outside of God's depiction and definition of compassion, you will find yourself showing compassion, an earthly version of compassion that doesn't have any action behind it, that is laced with pity and that ha gleans no transformation. And I just think that he wants, he wants more for his disciples. He wants us to really know what it means to be Jesus to the crowd that needs a shepherd.

Daniel:

Absolutely. I think, uh, we have a saying in Norway and it's called doing someone a bear favor. Not bear, drink bear, but bear the animal.

Kayley:

Like bear, like BEAR.

Daniel:

Yes.

Kayley:

Doing someone a bear favor.

Daniel:

Exactly. Okay.

Kayley:

Explain

Daniel:

that means that. I have kids, two kids. Mm-hmm. if I let them stay up all night mm-hmm. Watching movies. Mm-hmm. and they were supposed to go to school mm-hmm. Seven o'clock in the morning. Mm-hmm. They will love me because I'm the best dad ever when I let them watch the movies, but in the long run, it will hurt them. So that's what's it means to do somebody a bare favor.

Kayley:

So it's kind of like a bad favor.

Daniel:

It's a bad favor, yeah. It's a you, they love you because you're letting them do what they wanna do then and there. Yeah. And, and maybe that's, if you, if you draw that into a Christian, uh, thought, What about heaven? What about life after death? What about Jesus? Stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And I tell everybody that you don't need Jesus because I want them to like me. Mm. Or I want them to feel like they're good enough. Mm-hmm. So they can walk out of there feeling good. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Instead of saying, you're actually a sinner. Mm-hmm. You, you, you're not deserving heaven. Mm-hmm. But because of God and because what Jesus did on the cross. Mm. You do. Yeah. That's harder to say.

Kayley:

It's, it's hard to deliver the gospel. It is, yeah. I mean, there are people that have told me like, Kayley, you're so bold. You're so brave for talking about Jesus or whatever. I'm like, you don't understand. Like, yeah, I used to be terrified of talking about faith. One, I could not even tell you what the gospel was, first of all, so I had no business talking about it, but I did believe in it. Yeah. And, and secondly, I didn't know the compassion of God. No. Like this whole podcast, like talking about Jesus, talking about the ways in which you can live a rich and fulfilling life through him because that's his will and desire for you. Like it would be cruel for me to withhold some of the roadmap. Yeah. It would be, it would be cruel for me to withhold some of the testimony. Mm-hmm. Because it does lead to transformation in my, in my opinion and belief and, and just the outcome of people that have watched this podcast and reached out to me. And I, I just think like I walked into a new understanding of the love that Jesus has and I want everybody to know what it is.

Daniel:

Yes. And that's what convinced me to believe that I was allowed, I have to say, allowed to be called a Christian because I felt like I couldn't do that. And, um. The way I look at Jesus now Yeah. Compared to before. Yeah. I, I felt like he was this judgmental man sitting on a, a big guy. Yeah. And just, only watched the bad things I did. Mm. And uh, the more I understand that what Jesus did on the cross for me is enough. Mm-hmm. it changed the whole thing. And I think the devil wants you to believe that you're not good enough. Yeah. And that you feel. You feel a better person to say that I'm not a Christian. Yeah. Because I do so, so many bad things. Mm. Because you feel like that's how it's supposed to be.

Kayley:

Like you're like, you deserve that. So it Yeah. But it doesn't make you feel better in the end. It just makes you feel worthless.

Daniel:

Yeah. But it, you feel like that's, I felt like I was being more honest to not say that I was a Christian. Okay. I thought that was honesty.

Kayley:

So when did it change and how did it, and how did it change and what does it look like now?

Daniel:

It took a while.

Kayley:

Okay.

Daniel:

It was a, a long road and, um, now I feel like I'm not focusing anymore on things I'm doing wrong. Okay. I'm trying to do the best I can, but when you do that, when you're trying to do stuff for Jesus and thinking about, I belong to Jesus. Yeah. You want to do good things. Yeah. If you believe that you're not belong to Jesus Christ, you don't care anymore. Mm-hmm. And that's the, that's, uh, the danger in, uh, how you tell people about the gospel. Yeah. Because, it's so, it's like my daddy. My daddy is a pastor, and he says it's so easy that it takes a human being to make it difficult. That's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.

Kayley:

That's pretty good. But I think also, you know, in scripture it says, think on what is good, what is, um, beautiful, what is worthy of praise. Mm-hmm. Think on these things. Yeah. And how often does the enemy wanna get us thinking on the opposite? Exactly. And I think that's where we, we end up forfeiting the gift. Yeah. Because what you were doing in focusing on all the ways that you are not good. Yeah. And a bad Christian or whatever. You forfeited God's love in your life. You forfeited God's favor. You forfeited God's freedom that he had for you, his peace, his joy, simply because your focus was on all the ways in which you were terrible and not the ways in which God redeemed you. Yeah, and it doesn't mean that, I mean, I'm still a worm. Like I remember, I remember when I was going through it, I was living on my knees. And that, that was the only way I could get through my day. I just, I needed Jesus so bad every day I was living on my knees, and it was in that season that I learned I was just a worm. Mm-hmm. I was such a worm and I needed him so bad. Yeah. And it was pain that brought me there, and it was there that I learned reliance on the Lord. And now I learned how to rely on him in the good ways too, like in the good seasons during the, the blessed seasons, during seasons of harvest. Oh. Because I learned how to serve him and, and lean on him in the, in the hard, barren times.

Daniel:

Yeah. The thing is, um, when I went through that phase for many years, it's hard for you to believe that Jesus actually loves you. And that's the thing that I was struggling with. Yeah. And I've kind of made peace with that. Okay. Because I wasn't good enough and I, my thoughts were somewhere else because I felt like, why, why do I even think about Jesus at all? Yeah. And then his way, how do you say that? It's not our ways.

Kayley:

Yeah. His ways are not our our ways.

Daniel:

So everything I did, it led me back to Jesus somehow. Mm-hmm. And, craziest thing I ever experienced was, I was thinking about this. Am I really good enough, Am I? I wanted to be, and I was on my way back and I was the prodigal son on his way back to the house, but I wasn't there yet. Okay. I was going there and, uh, we wrote the song, the, the Old Church.

Kayley:

Yes.

Daniel:

And I sang that at 3rd And Lindsley and when I came back to Norway, uh, my wife, she had, uh, videotaped the whole thing on her phone. Mm-hmm. And I was, uh, putting subtitles, uh, in English on the song. Okay. I was going to put it out there. And the whole time I was thinking, does Jesus loves me? Am I good enough? And the crazy thing, I still have that tape. The crazy thing is that when the guitar player, I don't know his name. Uh, there were a couple guitar players on that session. Yeah. The one that played, uh, was it Gideon Friend? We have in Jesus? Oh, I don't know which one did that. No. Okay. Whatever. One of the guitar players, one of the guitar players, yeah. When he played that, the intro on the song, suddenly the subtitles came on, but there are no words right there. So I'm not starting singing before maybe 10 seconds later. Wow. And it says, do, do, do. I do, do do, love, do, do you. So wait. Somebody said, I love you when standing on that stage. And I have goosebumps right now. And it was like, I couldn't believe that was actually happened. So I took it back and I have a studio back home. So I did the equalizer and tried to see

Kayley:

somebody said it on a mic or something.

Daniel:

Yeah. And there's dead silence. It's only the guitar.

Kayley:

It's just the guitar.

Daniel:

Yeah. And that's before I sing a Christian song about my faith and all. And it was, I,

Kayley:

and this was at my show. Yeah. Last October.

Daniel:

Yeah. And it said, I love you. And from that time I was like, yeah, he actually loves me. So I, I, I'm allowed to say that I'm a Christian.

Kayley:

Oh my gosh. Yeah. And we'd known each other for a little bit. Yeah. By that point. And you never told me that you struggled with feeling God's love for you.

Daniel:

No.

Kayley:

Wow. Oh, that's so good. He's so good. Yeah. He's a miracle worker and he also knows the cries of our heart. He knows where we struggle and he comes in in miraculous ways that don't make sense to just earth.

Daniel:

Yeah.

Kayley:

And he comes in, he just reveals his love.

Daniel:

Yes. It's amazing. And,

Kayley:

and it changed you.

Daniel:

It changed me. It did.

Kayley:

It changed you. Yeah. That was his compassion. I feel for you, Daniel. I feel for you that you don't think I love you. I need to tell you in a really beautiful, miraculous way. Yeah. And now you get changed. Mm-hmm. So how is it in Norway now? Are you declaring that you're a Christian over there?

Daniel:

Yeah. I, I need to be bolder. Okay. But, uh, we say Norway, we probably do that here too. We say Saved. I'm saved. Mm-hmm. And that's another thing to say that I'm saved. Mm-hmm. And to say that I'm a Christian in Norway.

Kayley:

Really? Yeah. Why is it different?

Daniel:

if you say you're a Christian, that's more the religion. Christian. Okay. That you believe in God, but you don't have a personal relationship with God.

Kayley:

Okay.

Daniel:

So when you say you saved, that's say, oh, really? So that's another level kind of,

Kayley:

this is so fascinating to me. I know.

Daniel:

So Christian and saved are the same thing, but at the same time it's not the same thing.

Kayley:

Well, it's, you know, there's a lot of Christians, there's a, you know, there's a lot of unbelievers that I've encountered that have no knowledge that they need to be saved. Yeah. I think in the western world, we do everything we need for ourselves. Like we have our basic needs met, food, shelter, clothing. We're not hungry for that. Mm-hmm. And we become our own God. I mean, we are in the worldview. The worldview of if you want something, you go out and you go get it. Yeah. And when you operate in that way and everything you acquire was through your own strength, will. Yeah. Et cetera, then you just don't need a God. Mm-hmm. That's how a lot of people operate and therefore you are your own God. Yeah. I was my own God for a long time, even I even claimed Jesus and I was my own God, and it's because I didn't submit my ways to the Lord. Mm-hmm. And the Bible says like, submit all your ways into the Lord and he will make your path straight. My paths were crooked as hell. You know, like they were, they were, they were not good looking paths. Yeah. And I'm sitting here thinking, oh, look at me. I can do all things. And then, yeah, here I am needing to give my life to the Lord. And I knew I needed saving from myself. Yeah. But most people don't think they need to be saved.

Daniel:

I know,

Kayley:

So the, that even that concept even of Oh, you got saved. What did you get saved from? Geez. Were you like exactly in the ditch? No, I was literally my own God. That's what happened.

Daniel:

Yeah, that's what I'm saying to people because a lot of people saying, oh, you think you're so much better than me? Because you're going to heaven and you're saved. I was like, no, I'm worse than you. I need Jesus. You think you can get there by yourself, so yeah. Yeah. It's, it's hard. We need Jesus to get there. So, yeah,

Kayley:

there's a scripture in Habakkuk, which is one of the prophets in the, in the Old Testament, and, uh, it says, it's talking, I think about the Babylonians with their fierce chariots and their mighty horses. And he said, the Bible said they are so, uh, no. What does it say? Uh, they are filled with guilt because their own strength is their God. Yeah. And that's so people. Mm-hmm. That's just pe That's human. That's humanity.

Daniel:

It is.

Kayley:

This is why there's burnout. This is why they, we need therapy.

Daniel:

Yeah, but it's true.

Kayley:

This, this is why we need a shepherd. This is why we need the compassion of Jesus.

Daniel:

Exactly. These sheeps would just wander away because they're really stupid.

Kayley:

They're so stupid.

Daniel:

They're so stupid, and so are we. Yeah. At least I am. I'm so stupid. But if, yeah. So I'm You need a shepherd. Human beings. You need a shepherd. You, you wake up in the morning like Jesus. Say, we all sin. Yeah. Why do we do that?

Kayley:

Why do we sin?

Daniel:

Yeah. It's because we're sheeps.

Kayley:

We're sheeps. Sheeps. Yeah. Jeeps,

Daniel:

sheep, Jeeps, Jeeps. We're Jeeps. Yeah. So because we're stupid and we're just, you're stupid. Yeah. We, we need Jesus. And. To understand that we need Jesus. And the most important thing that I understood after a while is that he loved us first. He wants us to come to him. Yeah. It's not like I hope Jesus, that I'm good enough right now that I can come to you. He, that's what he wants. Yeah. And he, he loves us first. That's why we love him. Yeah. And he died on the cross because that he wants us. And to understand that instead of thinking that no, he don't, he doesn't want me because I'm so bad. I'm doing so many things wrong. Uh, you're just fooling yourself and

Kayley:

Well, that's the enemy.

Daniel:

That's the enemy.

Kayley:

It's the enemy. I, I like to say this a lot. Is the voice in your head building you up, or is it burying you? Yeah, because God's voice in your life will never, ever bury you. It will always build you. Yeah. And I wish I would've known that. Years ago because it would've saved me from a lot of self-inflicted torture. Yeah, that's good. Where I'm like, I'm the worst of, because I, you know, just as I was performing before God was the Lord of my life. I then began performing when he was the Lord of my life. I'm like, I have to perform this way, and this way, and this way in faith, in order for God to give me favor. Mm-hmm. But no, he like gives me these good gifts. And then I'm like, wait, wait, wait. I don't deserve this. Like, look at how I was behaving this week. Like what are you you're providing for me? Oh my gosh, I didn't even deserve this. Yeah. And he's like, exactly.

Daniel:

Exactly. Yeah.

Kayley:

Exactly. And then what does that make me wanna do? It makes me want to obey him. Yeah. It makes me want to serve him and love him and seek him and be like, okay, Lord. Like Wow, you really, man, you paid my bills this week. Um. What, how can I, how can I, how can I love you? Mm-hmm. How can I serve you? Who, who, who do you want me to minister to? What, what can I do for your kingdom? Yeah. And most of the time he just says, ah, why don't you just hang out with me?

Daniel:

That's what he wants.

Kayley:

Why don't you just spend time with me?

Daniel:

And also when you talk to him about compassion, I think it's David, in one of those psalms, he says, if I make my bed in hell yeah. You are there. Yeah. So instead of thinking of that, I'm not good enough. Mm-hmm. Uh, he will be there always. And that's compassion. the compassion from Jesus, not ours.

Kayley:

I think it's also showing a low view of God. Mm-hmm. To say, oh, look how bad I am. Look at how worthless I am. Like he doesn't wanna save me or he doesn't need to save me. You're also in a way saying he can't. Exactly. He can't save me. I am just this wor, I'm like this terrible of a person. Mm-hmm. And that is establishing, establishing a low view of God and who he is. And I had a friend just literally last night talk about a prayer that she, she has. She's like, ah, I really, you know, wish the Lord would do this, but I don't wanna ask him 'cause it's not that big of a deal. And you know, he's got bigger fish to fry. And I'm like. My friend, my dear, my sister. That's a low view of God.

Daniel:

Yeah, it is.

Kayley:

Don't you think he cares about the big things and the small things? Yeah. You're his daughter. I said, imagine if you had a child. And, and, and actually it was about like, um, I think a toothache. It was a, she had a toothache and she's like, I gotta go to the dentist and I just want this. I've never had a toothache before. I've never had a cavity before. And I just, I don't, I just don't wanna bother the Lord with a tooth. I said, can you imagine if you had a child. Who had a toothache and they didn't come to you and say, mom, I have a toothache. Mm-hmm. I need help. Yeah. She's like, I would take him outside back and I would slap him. Like, I'd be mad you didn't tell me about this. Exactly. I said, that's how the Lord feels when we don't bring our issues to him. Yeah. He's the great healer. He's the great, uh, he's the medicine man. Yeah. Like he wants to come in and make whole what is un whole mm-hmm. Heal. What is unhealed? Restore what is torn down. Yeah. Build up what is broken down. That's who he is, that's what he wants to do. And so if we can have compassion for ourselves and the compassion of the Holy Spirit that actually changes us mm-hmm. And changes our environment, then we will go to him and ask for the restoration, ask for the healing, ask for him to be Lord over everything.

Daniel:

Yes. And I believe that, uh, Jesus is God made flesh. Mm. He came to earth. Yeah. So he's been through all those things. Yes. I don't know if he ever had toothache.

Kayley:

He might have had a toothache

Daniel:

maybe. But he, he knows how to feel, to be sad. Yeah. To be angry. To cry. Yeah. To feel, uh, wounded in, in any way. Yeah. To feel betrayal. Yeah. He felt all that. Yeah. So he can relate. So when we say, dear Jesus, um, I'm really sad today. Mm. This is a, this is a hard one. This is the worst day I ever had

Kayley:

in my life. Yeah.

Daniel:

Yeah. He, he can relate to whatever feeling we have,

Kayley:

He can relate to it,

Daniel:

and that's what I think is a personal relationship with God. Yeah. Because if he's my dad, I would've called on my dad and said, do you have some painkillers for my tooth right now? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's, I think that's the personal relationship God wants us to have. Mm-hmm. Not to put him. He, he's the, he, he's the king of kings. That's not what I'm saying. But he's also,

Kayley:

he is, but he is, he is the lion and the lamb.

Daniel:

Exactly.

Kayley:

And it's, it's so beautiful when we think about that because it, it says, it says like, pick up your cross. But it's like there, I think in scripture it talks about the fellowship of Christ's sufferings. Mm-hmm. And I think when we are grieved. We're in fellowship with Jesus. Yeah. Because he also too grieved. Mm-hmm. And how beautiful is it to relate to Jesus? It's, it puts him in the room with us. Yeah. It, it takes down this dividing wall of separation of like, oh, he doesn't understand me. He doesn't get me. This is why I am a worthless piece of, you know, sack of rice or whatever. Yeah. And, um, he doesn't wanna pay any attention to me when it's like he was that person. Yeah. He, he wanted. He, he, and then the compassion he had for that crowd, I keep going back to that crowd. Mm-hmm. He saw them and with compassion, the twisting up of his insides. Yeah. Like, that's crazy. To me, that's what he felt when he had compassion, the twisting and wrenching of his insides. That's how much grief he had. Mm-hmm. For those people that didn't have a shepherd that were being led astray,

Daniel:

I think a lot of times about, the woman, that were caught.

Kayley:

In in adultery.

Daniel:

Yeah. Yeah. the, the cool thing that I've been thinking about is that Jesus saying to all the Pharisees and all the people there that you, without stone, you without sin, cast the first stone. Yeah. And then it kneels down and he writes something in sand.

Kayley:

He writes in the sand. Yeah. Nobody knows what he said.

Daniel:

Nobody knows.

Kayley:

What do you think he said? Um. That Greek word for compassion that I can't pronounce.

Daniel:

That's what he said. But what I'm thinking about, he takes his finger. Yeah. And he writes, so I was thinking, did he write the 10 Commandments? Because the other time somebody writes something with his finger, it's God on the mountain when he gives them the 10 Commandments. So what if you did that? Because the pharisee, they they knew that.

Kayley:

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, interesting.

Daniel:

You know, but the coolest thing is, jesus is standing there in front of them perfect God in flesh. Yeah. He's maybe the one that wrote the rules for that woman that was there. Mm. He was the one that had written all the laws. Yeah. And then he said, he asked her, does any of these people, um, judge you? Because they all left. Yeah. And nobody does. And neither do I.

Kayley:

Neither do I.

Daniel:

What he say? C Condemn you.

Kayley:

Condemn you. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel:

He could do that. He, he could condemn her.

Kayley:

But he didn't come to the world to condemn. Exactly. He came to the world to save

Daniel:

and he's the one that wrote the, the rules. Yeah. Yeah. But he came to save and restore. Yeah. And give life,

Kayley:

uh, He's a God of mercy.

Daniel:

Yeah. And also another thing that I was thinking about when you was talking about the God's Prayer. That

Kayley:

the what?

Daniel:

The, the God's Prayer. No, what?

Kayley:

Oh, the Lord's Prayer.

Daniel:

Yeah. The Lord's Prayer. Yeah. So when you are not having the. Relationship with God anymore. Yeah. That you don't think you deserve.

Kayley:

Okay.

Daniel:

the praying after a while will stop. Mm. So you are leaning on things you heard before because you have no context, your connection with the Lord

Kayley:

Yeah. Okay.

Daniel:

So one of the coolest things I think in the Lord's Prayer is give us today the daily bread. Yes. Give us our daily bread.

Kayley:

Yes.

Daniel:

Every single day. Yeah. Because when Isaac and Abraham, when Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac mm-hmm. He was, he, he, he was given the word mm-hmm. And was going to do that. But then he didn't hear about the daily word. He didn't, he needed one more word to set him free. Mm. So that's what we need. We need the daily bread every day. Yeah. To know what to do every day.

Kayley:

Yeah. For man does not live by bread alone, but every word from the mouth of God. Exactly. Ugh. This is so good. Yeah. Well, I think we're running outta time.

Daniel:

Absolutely. Yep.

Kayley:

But I'm just so glad that I was able to catch you while you were stateside and I can't wait to go back to Norway and to see all the people and play more music. Yeah. Again, 'cause I know we're gonna do that again this, this Christmas. Um. But anyway, y'all, thank you so much for listening, tuning into Bible Bish Today. I hope that something that we ha had said, something that we've said has stirred in your chest, whether it was showing your own version of compassion versus Holy Spirit's, or Jesus's version of compassion. I hope you're not enabling people like we have, and I hope that you also understand that God loves you so much and that his compassion is for you. There's a twisting up of his insides for you if you are a led astray. He wants you in his flock. He wants you to have him as your shepherd because he will always restore you. He will help you when you're downcast. He will lift you up. in his glory, he will exalt you. And so anyway, I just, we love you so much and make sure you follow, subscribe, like do all the things. Absolutely. Share this podcast with someone that you love and in the name of love, go be blessed and have a wonderful rest of your day.