Bible Bish
Bible Bish exists to share testimonies, wrestle with the hard God questions, and invite people into a deeper relationship with Jesus. This podcast was born out of obedience, authenticity, and a deep desire to love others in the best way I know how- by pointing them to Him. Come for the tea, stay for the truth. You just might leave changed.
Bible Bish
How to Break the Cycle of Self-Loathing | Guest: Kimberly Joy
I’ve got my spiritual mama, Kimberly Joy, here to help you overcome this nasty habit of self-loathing.
If you’ve ever looked in the mirror and thought, “I don’t like who I am” -this one’s for you. And if you’re like me and it’s gone beyond dislike into detesting who you are, then this is especially for you. Kim is a full-on powerhouse: author, speaker, mom of eleven, and my personal “momtor.”
In this episode, we talk about how to break free from self-condemnation and finally walk in the way God sees us. We hit on identity, insecurity, comparison, and why trying to earn your worth will never work. The Holy Spirit led both Kim and me out of self-hatred and, I promise, He can and wants do the same for you.
Thanks for tuning in to Bible Bish!
Come for the tea, stay for the truth -you just might leave changed. 🕊️
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In the name of love, this is your Bible Bish reporting for duty. ♡
the word condemn means punishable by death. condemnation brings death. Conviction brings life. So the Holy Spirit will convict you while giving you hope for change, Yes. Yes. Condemnation will condemn you, making you feel hopeless, like you'll never change
Kayley:Well, hello. Welcome back to another episode of Bible Bish. My name is Kayley Bishop. I'm so excited that you picked this to tune into, to listen to, to engage in, because there are many places you could be, and yet you chose my little sliver of the internet, and so to that, I'm so thankful. That also means that I really wanna take care of you. So what we're talking about today is just for you, especially if you're struggling with self-loathing, because I think if you are living in modern society today where there's social media everywhere, you likely struggle with some sort of self hatred just because we're exposed to so much comparison and we all know that comparison is a thief of joy. That being said, I'm so excited to have my spiritual mama on the show. Her name is Kimberly Joy. She's full of joy, but she's also full of Holy Spirit fire, wisdom. She's got testimony for days. Y'all, she has lived life. She has seen things that no one should see, been through so much as a mother of 11. She is a renowned author, speaker. She has her own women's, uh, entrepreneurial organization. She's a business coach. She's a personal coach. She's my spiritual mentor. I call her my momtor 'cause it's like mom mixed with mentor, you know what I mean? And, uh, she's amazing. So anyway, welcome to the show, Kimberly Joy.
Kim:Thank you Kayley Bish.
. Kayley:It's like weird to use your name like that. I know. It's like you're just Kim to me. Um, so I, I just, I want you to tell. Give everybody just like a quick intro to who you are and what God is doing right now with you in this season.
Kim:Well, who I am is just a daughter of God called and chosen to lift up and raise up other daughters of God. Everything that I do, uh, in my mission for women is to empower them to live the lives they were born for. That's really what I'm up to. That's really what I'm about. I wish we had more women like that. I think, you know, one thing I've heard you say several times is women should be completing each other, not competing with one another. Yes. And I think that's so important because any woman, I think growing up with other women has likely found the competition aspect more so than the completion aspect. Yes. And I think when we're really walking with Holy Spirit, we then know who we are. Mm-hmm. Because our value, our gifts Yep. Are so individualized and, and if we know who we are in Jesus, then why would we ever want to be somebody else or compete with somebody else? It's like God gave us a special call, a special anointing that is individual to us.
Kayley:Yes. And so there's, I say there's the three C's of insecurity. This is how you know, you're dealing with insecurity, whether in yourself or someone else comparing Competing and criticizing. The three C's. If you see those three C's and feel them know they're there, even if people are pretending they aren't there, but you know they're there. Yeah.'cause let's be honest, we can be good as women at putting on the smile, but why don't we, why are we getting that negative energy? Yeah. Smile on the face. Energy in the face don't match. Right? Yeah, totally.
Kim:And when we say, when we see the comparing, competing and criticizing, that's an indication of insecurity. And the message that God has for his daughters is none of us need to be insecure. No one, not a one of us. Not over appearance. Not over our past, not over what we lack, because what we lack, he fills. Yeah. You know what we did in our past? He cleanses the, the way we look, the Bible says, reflects his glory we're made in his image. Yeah. You know, that we're, that like
Kayley:to reflect glory, to reflect his glory. We are just as I am,
Kim:we were made in his image. So even, you know, we all, I'll be honest, I'm a woman. I have complaints about things, about my body and, and, and, and all of that. All of us do. But if you just set that aside for a moment and recognize that we were made in the image of God, that we were given a body, a mind, and all of its inner workings to do something so much more important than just looking hot
Kayley:man.
Kim:So much more important.
Kayley:And uh, sorry. Keep going.
Kim:And I'm not saying don't, you know, put your best appearance forward. Don't put your best face forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something about making the outer package reflect what's inside. Mm. And I encourage women to do that, but it's not the greatest thing you have to offer. No. It's not the best thing on your resume. And so if we can understand that we have nothing to be insecure about, we are who he made us to be. We can do what he said that we can do. And he is who he says he is. More importantly. Yeah. And he can do what he says he will do. And if we have all of that locked and loaded in the holster every day, we don't have a reason to be insecure.
Kayley:I think it's also just being heavenly minded. Mm-hmm. I see. I mean, just in Nashville, Nashville has a lot of beautiful people. Sometimes I walk out to the grocery
Kim:Nashville, you do's Nashville.
Kayley:There's a lot of attractive people here.
Kim:Beautiful people in Nashville.
Kayley:I'm like, man, I feel like a sloth or like a, I don't know, a pig with lipstick on it. I don't know, man. Like, it's, it's so hard. You feel like you are in this place of, do I have, how do I compete? I don't look like that. I can't, I don't have a body like that. There's that C word. Exactly. Compete. And, but you know, I, I know when I am more heavenly minded. Than earthly minded. Yep. When I'm thinking about the spiritual side of things and not the natural side of things, I naturally radiate joy. I naturally radiate the glory of God. Yes. Even more so. And people, I mean, I remember not even too long ago, this guy was like, you're glowing. I said, man, I've just been touched by heaven. Wow. That's a, that's the best way to look. Good. That's right. Just glowing because you've been touched by heaven. Woo.
Kim:That's right. And the Bible talks about the inner beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, and that doesn't mean we all as women have to have the same personality. No. Yeah. It doesn't say gentle and quiet personality. Mm. Okay. It says gentle and quiet spirit. Mm. It it's a spirit that is at rest in who she is in Christ.
Kayley:Oh, that's so good.
Kim:Regardless of personality. And I just wanna say, there's so many women, I've talked to so many women over the years with what I do, who say I'm different from women. I'm not like other women. Guess what? Like 90% of your sisters out there are saying the same thing. I think that what that means is we're not all supposed to be alike and they'll say, I'm different. I'm not like other women. And they, they think that that disqualifies them. Mm. And what I hear and I see is that actually is because of what you were born to do. Mm. You were made specifically for the assignment on your life. And if you don't match this and this and this, it's because you weren't born for that. You were born for something else. And the joy and the journey is finding out what that something else is and going and doing it.
Kayley:I just, I just see the Lord, like any time that. I have lived in that mindset of competition and criticism, you know, full of anger at myself for not being a certain thing. I almost just sense like the Lord being so sad about that. Wow. Like why are you sad about the thing that I'm not asking you to be? Yep. Like you're getting all of your ideas and you're getting your call twisted. Yep. You're not listening to my voice. You couldn't be, 'cause if you were listening to my voice, you'd know what value you have, what gifting you have, and you'd be hearing the step I'd be given you to go walk in it. That's right. And your confidence would multiply, everything would shift, your community would shift. You'd start shedding light in areas of darkness. Because when we're stewarding our gift, walking in our gift, that's so individually ours, we light up a room, all of a sudden we'd know who we are more completely. We'd find more joy in our specific individuality. And I, I mean, I, I look back to my younger self struggling with confidence. I hated myself. And it's, it's really crazy'cause like, even after I gave my life to the Lord and fully and completely, and started actually having him as my Lord and Savior, I still struggled with self hatred. Mm-hmm. Because now I'm trying to perform for God.
Kim:Wow. And you know how short we fall trying to do that?
Kayley:Oh, it's impossible.
Kim:It's impossible to live up to his standard in our own strength, in our own striving. So, you know, it's a recipe for more self-loathing. You're absolutely right. So how did you, how did that affect you?
Kayley:Oh my gosh. Like it was. You know, every day I'm heaping on the self-hatred for, you know, if you were kinder, you would've said a better thing to that person and you, you might've been able to help set them free in the Lord. Oh, if, I mean, it's so ugly. It's like, oh, if, if you would've just woken up and not slept in and had your quiet time, you would've heard from God and you would've been able to go seize the day and you're just lazy. Whatever. It's like, it's just so ugly. Wow. Like, even, even the impression, impression of that voice, it's so ugly. And, and God's just, he's so sad. He's like, when are you going to stop partnering with what the enemy is saying about you and start walking in the abundant grace that I have and I am And why are you walking in God in, in his opinion of you and, and not mine, says the Lord.
Kim:That's right. That's absolutely right.
Kayley:But I wanna talk to you about your self-loathing.
Kim:Oh, great. Yay.
Kayley:'cause I, you know, I'm coming. You're coming. I'm coming out of a season where I've learned a lot more, but it's, it's like those neuro pathways that I've established my whole life. Yeah. Still need to yank on the wheel to get off of them. That's right. And so I need some help. Okay. Mentor me.
Kim:Well, you know, self-loathing can come from a lot of different sources, and sometimes it's our own voice from a young age. Sometimes it's someone else's voice that, you know, a seed was just planted and then we just put it on loop. Mm. Um, it could have been something somebody said when we were young, we could have been bullied. Um, we could have felt, uh, unseen. Yeah. Uh, it could be so many things, but it really comes back to something that happened in our formative years. Hmm. So, and, and I just wanna say for, for those listeners and viewers of yours who struggle with self-loathing. Don't add this to the list of things you blame yourself for. Mm. Don't add. Oh, oh. In addition to everything else I do wrong, I also hate myself, which is hurting myself. So, no, that started before you even had the wherewithal to realize it. Mm. That this, the enemy is so insidious and, and he's actually clever. He knows that if he can plant these types of seeds in a young mind that has no defenses. Oh yeah. No spiritual weapons, no wisdom. So true. You know, just plant the seed in those formative years. Birth to seven, seven to 14, or 14 to 21. And where we. What life is is for a, a child is just an experience. You're just literally on a ride experiencing life. Yeah. And you have learned nothing about how to manage life and how to um,
Kayley:navigate it.
Kim:Navigate it. Or even just be in charge of your own life. Yeah. Much less in charge of your own thoughts. Yeah. So he knows that that is the vulnerable time and the best time. And he also knows it can establish a lifetime of a stronghold in our life, in our mind, in our thinking, in our acting. So somewhere along the lines, somebody or something happens. Some, someone says something and we realize we're bad, we're dumb, we're less than, it's just a million adjectives. Yeah. And it becomes part of our self-talk. Many years later, you find yourself walking with God. This happened to me. I'm in the closet one day, uh, getting changed after, uh, you know, getting ready for the day. And I had been to some important event, business related. I wanted to, you know, crush it, wanted to sound like I had half a clue, just a half,
Kayley:just half of a clue.
Kim:And, um, I didn't, I sounded like I had a, you know, an, a molecule of a clue. And I came home from this thing, like really, really, you know, just going over it and over it and over it. And the more I went over it, the, the worse I sounded. Mm. Like I was literally rewriting what happened. Mm. In all of my thinking and in my emotion. And um, and I was just going over that in my mind. And this wasn't even the day of the event. So this tells you how long we can carry. One event and just beat ourselves up over it. Wow. And I'm in the closet and I'm getting dressed and I'm thinking all this. And my thoughts just start bubbling up so much. And they're so overwhelming and all the emotion is coming with them that I just say out loud, oh, you're such an idiot. And I just verbalized my agreement with what I was hearing and repeating in my mind. And no sooner did I say that than I heard the Lord, the Father speak to me. And he said, Hey, don't talk about my daughter like that.
Kayley:He's so good.
Kim:And at first I felt scolded, but then I realized. He was protecting me from me. Mm-hmm. Which was really protecting me from the enemy who wanted me to agree with him. Yeah. And I wasn't ready to fully grasp the power of agreement and how I had been agreeing with the enemy all these years and how it formed a stronghold in my mind and neuropathways and a pattern of thinking. But when he said, Hey, don't talk about my daughter like that, I understood instantly that hurt his heart. Yeah. And if somebody talked about my daughter like that, it would hurt my heart. And when pe, when my daughters started, when I'd hear them talk about themselves after that, I'd say, Hey, don't talk about my daughter like that. Yeah. And that's the heart of the father when we are doing these things and agreeing with what the enemy says. But even furthermore, past that date, I was, um, doing forgiveness work. And, um, really deep diving into forgiveness. I had watched, or the video, the Bait of Satan by John Bevere. I had read the book. John Bevere. Yeah. John Bevere. Shout out to him. So good. I'd read the book years earlier, but somebody threw a video my way and I was like, wow, I have some forgiveness work to do again. And by the way, um, forgiveness is so linked to self-loathing and I'll, I'm gonna get to that and, and show you the power of forgiveness and, and in this whole element here. But, um, I was, you know, being a. Working mom, running a business. Lots of kids. And I was praying while on my treadmill. Okay. I was multitasking and I was, I was like, I'll warm up with my walk and my prayer and then I'll run. Like just, you know, trying to do everything. Yes. Just in that season of life. And, um, I'm on the treadmill and I begin to pray and I, I, I start going through my forgiveness. But I had learned that we really delude ourselves as it relates to forgiveness, and we deceive ourselves and we say, oh, I'm not bitter. Mm. Oh, I don't have anybody to forgive. So I learned to say, Lord, who do you think I need to forgive? So good. Yeah. So it's not a list I make. It's a list he makes. The heart of men is wicked and deceitful above all else. Who can know it? Who can know it? He can know it. Yes. So, Lord, who do I need to forgive? So he says, you yourself. I was like, oh, is that a thing? I mean, I literally was like 43 years old going, I'm supposed to be forgiving myself. And I walked with the Lord since like really walked the narrow road since I was 21, knew Jesus from a young child. I think I was six or seven. And I prayed the salvation prayer at least six times just to make sure it stuck, you know? And I just had, was hearing about forgiving myself from God. Wow. And I was like, he And I said, is that a thing? And he goes, well, can you hold a grudge against yourself? And I was like, oh yeah, that's a big yes for me. Yeah. I can hold a big grudge against myself. He said, well then you can forgive yourself. So logical. So, okay, Lord. So, and then I, I go to forgive myself, but I'm like, well, what am I exactly forgiving myself for? Yeah. And he said, what do you hold against yourself the most? It came to me, Kayley, in a lightning flash, and I said, father, in Jesus' name, I forgive myself for being human, flawed, and imperfect. And I just realized like the thing I hated about myself the most was my humanity. Yeah. I wanted to be perfect and not make mistakes. I wanted to never miss the mark. I wanted to always measure up. I wanted to be perfect so that I could feel that I had value because there was no value in imperfection in my mind.
Kayley:Ouch. Yeah. I feel like that is like really what I've been struggling with and I, you know, there's an ebb and flow of it, but Yeah, I, I mean, even most recently writing in my journals, like I hate my own humanity. I hate that I'm human. Yeah. Why can't I just not be human? I just, and, and I remember God telling me, I don't know, maybe a year or two ago, like, I didn't make you super human. I didn't make you a subhuman. I just made you simply human. And in your humanity, if you call on me, that is where your greatness lies. That's right. And it's just, why can't I just get over myself?
Kim:I know. Well, and I mean, in further conversations I'd say, Lord, I I just don't understand how you're so fine with this humanity thing. Yeah. And he, and he would be like, Hey, if I'm okay with it, what's your problem? Oh. You know, if the God of all creation who is perfect in every way, sinless, blameless, and cannot be one with evil, still loves and embraces us and died for us in our humanity, why can't we just be okay with it? He's okay with it. He, he actually created the solution for it. It's the cross. Yeah. And, and the empty tomb. So, um, you know, I, I have this moment and I realize, yeah, I have held it against myself, my humanity and under that umbrella are all the mistakes I've ever made. Right? Yeah. So it's not just, oh, I'm human. It's I'm human.
Kayley:And therefore
Kim:Yes. It's a therefore, yeah. So, um, I pray this prayer and I'm like, wow, that was really powerful. Thank you, Jesus. You know, get, get off the treadmill or do my thing. And then the next day I get on the treadmill and I, same routine, and I say, Lord, who do I need to forgive today? And, uh, and there were others I needed to forgive besides myself, but he, he led the same again. He goes, you. And I was like, oh, well didn't I just do that yesterday? He's like, do it again. So I do it again. I forgive myself again for being human, flawed, and imperfect and, um, get through my prayer time, get through my day, go to bed that night. Get on the treadmill. Day three. Day three is a day that is seared into my, uh, memory and my spiritual memory. I got on the treadmill and I said, Lord, who do I need to forgive today? Really thinking I had checked the box of forgiving me, like I really thought that I had this spiritual breakthrough. And, um, he says, you and I say, Lord, I just did that yesterday and the day before, like I just didn't understand it. And he said to me so clear. He's like. He didn't say it. I should, I should back up because I want people to understand that he puts an impression, he puts a, a picture in, you know, what's called the theater of your mind. Your imagination is actually a huge theater with Dolby sound and technicolor and all the things on purpose. And he puts this impression in the theater of my mind, of me going to bed the night before. And I see my head hitting the pillow and I instantly hear all my thoughts. You idiot, you screwed this up today. You botched that. You forgot that you were late to that meeting. You went to the store for three things and you came out with 17 and forgot the three you were there for. Like this, this is, this was, this is how I'd go to bed. This is how I went to bed that night before. And what it was is, was my ledger. It was my ledger. Now, in this day and age, nobody really keeps a checkbook ledger anymore. Mm-hmm. But back in the day, you had a ledger and you put everything you spent in every deposit you made. Well, my ledger was full of withdrawals. Mm. I didn't track any of the deposits. I wasn't counting anything good. I did, I was keeping a meticulous ledger of every way that I was human, flawed, and imperfect. Every day conversations, I botched people I was rude to or I wasn't nice enough, like you said. Yeah. Or I wasn't empathetic enough, or I wasn't blank enough all throughout my day. And I realized in that moment that I had been doing that when my head hit the pillow as far back as I could remember to my childhood, I began to weep so violently, I fell off the treadmill and was on the floor, on the carpet face first, face down before God saying, Lord. How long have you been waiting to show this to me? You just revealed to me a lifelong bondage, a lifelong self-talk and way of thinking that has sabotaged me every day as far back as I can remember. And you've been so patient with me that here it is, I'm however many years old, 43 years old, and you're finally getting to reveal this to me. Two things struck me the long suffering of Christ. Mm. The long suffering of Christ with us. Yeah, because he walked me through 1,000,001 things before that. Wow. And he wasn't saying, I can't help you because you just go to bed every night and just undo everything I did for you during the day. Mm. He never said that. He never did that. He never said, I'm just tired of you. You're not getting it. I felt the long suffering and the patience of God in that moment, like I had never experienced it before and I just wept and thanked him for who he was and for who he was for me. And that, um, if I could be set free of something so deep and ingrained in me that I didn't even know it was there, I thought, wow, what else? What else is there? What else can I get free from? What else is God gonna do to make me into the image of his son? Yeah, and it was very exciting, but it also now had to become a discipline. Yeah. I had to learn where there was the ledger to let myself off the hook and agree with what God said about me, that I was here to reflect his glory, that I could walk in my new nature. That yes, I have a flesh and it is filled with my humanity, but I also have a spirit that's alive to Christ. And the Bible tells me I can be led by the spirit and not give into the flesh. But if you are a prisoner to your flesh because you hate it, because the thing you hate is also something you worship. Hate is worship. Oof. Hate is worship. And the reason hate is worship. And the reason it's worship is because whatever you bow to, you're worshiping. Yeah. And when you bow to hatred. You bow to fear, you bow anything evil that you're bowing to and agreeing with, you're worshiping it. Wow. At an altar. Wow. So I'm worshiping at the altar of self-hatred. I'm like, come on in, devil. Let's have a heyday and hate me. Let's have a hate me party. And he's like, okay. And I'm bowing at that altar. And the Lord's like, we gotta unbuild that altar. And you need a new altar, an altar of worship to me, an altar that agrees with me. An altar that says, you are who I say you are not who He says you are not who She says you are not who they say you are. Not even who you say you are who I say you are.
Kayley:Wow. Okay. That was a lot. It's so good. I mean, I feel like the keeping of the ledger is such a tangible way of hating yourself, and I'm sure that there are tons of people listening to this that feel that way and have experienced that. Have you experienced self-hatred through a different method?
Kim:Um, gimme an example.
Kayley:What, so how, for instance, like how has self-hatred manifested in your life throughout your years?
Kim:Oh, okay. So how's it manifested? Yeah. Um, not taking great care of myself, um, for many, many years, it was not having boundaries and putting my needs last. Oh, and just being a doormat. Mm. Um, just my, my worth and value. You know, it is, it like even the belief falling for the belief that to be a servant in the kingdom means you have no voice, you have no needs, you, your emotions don't count. I literally lived a season of my life just telling myself over and over, your emotions are not your God, your God. So I would just squelch 'em down. Oh. You know, because I thought that was service. But that self-hatred that already devalued me, latched onto that religious dogma and just said, yeah, your feelings don't matter. You don't matter.
Kayley:Okay. Where did that, so you say religious dogma kind of was the mm-hmm. Aggressor in that? Yeah. Can you expand on that?'cause I know that there are a lot of women, because, you know, for years and years and years, women, I've been told that we're emotional beings. I mean, I remember my ex-husband telling me like, oh, women are emotional. That's why they need a man to make a decision. Totally belittling my gender. Mm-hmm. And, and who I am intrinsically, I'm like. Oh, we got, I mean we already had problems that was like, you know, the nail in the coffin really. But, um, but you know, I was told for so long I was emotional and therefore I was incapable as a result. Yeah. And so, yeah, just talk more about that.
Kim:Well, I think what I was being taught was your emotions are not your God. Therefore, you know, don't lead with them. But my tendency towards devaluing me latched onto that and took it further. Um, and, and I do think there was a, a, a place in religion for me at that point in my life where I was secondary. Hmm. I was secondary to whoever I was serving. I was secondary to the children, secondary to the husband, you know, that, um, my needs would, should come last period no matter what, because I'm a servant in my home and we're all servants in the kingdom. Yeah, but why, why was it in this particular culture, only the woman's needs were last in the home? Everybody else was first, even though we're all servants.
Kayley:Yeah. That's interesting.
Kim:A little, a little bit of a contradiction there, but, um, you know, I had my own propensity toward codependency, toward owning more of other people's problems than I should. Yeah. And so all that stuff, me mixed together and I began to just squelch out emotions, not talk about my feelings. And then, you know, once every six months I'd have this big blow up and I would feel so guilty, but it would be all this frustration that I wasn't communicating about in relationship. You know, it would be all my feeling powerless and all these situations where I didn't have a voice. Yeah. You know, and it, it was kind of like the volcano was always brewing because of the fact that I was squelching out all the emotion. Mm. You know? Then with the self-hatred, I felt like I didn't deserve to have a voice. But then when I voiced it, I voiced it not in the right way. And now I hate myself for that. So here we go, back down the cycle again. So now Kim, you shut up. Don't say what, don't say what you feel. Don't, don't rock the boat. Stir the pot, and then boom, another blow up. And you, you did it again. You did it again. And then I had actual voices in my life saying, oh, huh, look, listen to her. Wow. Yeah. You sound like somebody who loves Jesus, you know?
Kayley:Okay. How do you discern the voice of conviction versus the enemy's voice of condemnation?
Kim:Okay, that's a great question. So, um, the word condemn means punishable by death. So condemnation brings death. Conviction brings life. Mm. It always brings life. So the Holy Spirit will convict you while giving you hope for change? Yes. Yes. Condemnation will condemn you, making you feel hopeless, like you'll never change you're worthless.
Kayley:So it's more about the result. You get the feeling, and if you wanna know what it is, what do you feel after you, after you get that conviction or condemnation?
Kim:Well, yes. You, you immediately feel put down or you feel called higher. Yeah. That's it. You feel beaten down or you feel called higher. The Holy Spirit's conviction is a call to come up higher, but he doesn't force you. Mm. So it's a, it's an invitation to come up higher. The enemy literally just hits you over the head with a bat. Yeah. It's very easy to discern the two. Once you notice those distinctions. Um, but yeah, that self-loathing and the way that it manifested in putting myself last and, and I wanna just say this about your comment about emotions and the whole, like, you know, women are emotional, you know, God gave human beings emotions, period. And he gave us all emotions because they indicate something. Mm. I I say emotions are like dashboard lights. Yeah. And I lived my life ignoring the lights. My check engine light was on all the time, and I just drove the car till the wheels came off or until the engine blew. Yeah. And our emotions are there to indicate that something's wrong or something's right and uh, or that something needs to be inspected at the bare minimum. Something needs to be looked into. And, um, our emotions are not the driver of the car. They're the dashboard lights. So Yes, when the emotions are driving. It's, it's not a good scene for anyone. Male or female. Yeah. Wow. And though that exhibits differently, you know, depending on who you are, your personality and your sex. But the bottom line is our emotions are there to indicate something, to tell us something and we need to listen to them and we need to get them out. There was a study done of wives that were very, very unhappy in their marriage. Very unhappy. A whole two sets of wives miserable. 10 year study. Okay. One set of wives talked openly about how unhappy they were, so they were able to have conversation with someone else and just articulate their misery. Mm-hmm. Just doesn't sound very fun, but that's what they did. The other group was miserable and didn't talk about it. The group that didn't discuss their emotions was three times more likely to get cancer. Wow. Something like four times more likely to get an autoimmune disorder. And their bodies were beginning to break down because of the ignored, stuffed emotion inside of them. And even though both sets of wives were unhappy, it was the ones that were silent, that were sicker.
Kayley:That's nuts. It's nuts. You know, this is actually reminding me of a time where, I mean, I, I think I was able to be vocal about my emotions in my marriage, but after a while, like I was just kind of disregarded So much was not a, like, my opinion just didn't matter. My feelings didn't matter. And then I started to feel nothing. Wow. And, and I remember being so proud of myself, of like, I just, I never get upset. I don't, I never cry. Wow. But on the on, in the adverse, because I didn't cry for years, but in the adverse, I never was extremely joyful. I never had excitement. And I remember, you know, I had a lot of condemnation in my marriage and I just remember my ex-husband telling me one day, like he, he had done something for me that I didn't want, and he had expected me to be happy and wanted me to, and I didn't show any excitement. And then I was condemned for not showing excitement Wow. For something I didn't want in the first place. But I just remember thinking like, yeah, you know, I'm happy. I'm happy. I was trying to express it and it was like I didn't even know how to Wow. Because, and, and, and obviously later on I realized that that was just my defense mechanism. It's
Kim:It was a trauma response.
Kayley:Yeah. It was a trauma response. I was like, well, okay, well, I'm not gonna feel pain. I'm not gonna feel sad. That way, I cannot feel the thing at all. That's right. And now post, post-divorce, gosh, I cry all the time. I have experienced explosive joy, elation, man, I've been high as a kite, not in the drug way, but in the Holy Spirit way where he's taken me to mountaintops and, and it's not even circumstantial. I've done some really cool things in my life with the Lord and you know, without the Lord just in my career. But nothing, nothing compares to those quiet time moments where it's me and God alone. Yes. And he reveals something to me that just lifts my heart to the heavens. That's right. And I'm just like, wow, this is euphoria. That's right.
Kim:how that manifests. You're gonna go through seasons of life where you have great victory and you begin to agree with God about your true identity, and you begin to embrace yourself. And you're not really super struggling with that. But then there'll be times where you go through another fiery furnace. Yeah. And what I've come to learn about God is he takes us through different fires to go after the same main stronghold in our life at deeper, deeper level.
Kayley:Interesting. Wow.
Kim:So the furnace changes, but the thing he's trying to heal does not, what he's doing is, people say, I went around this mountain. I don't wanna go around this mountain again. So if you have the mountain of self-loathing, listen close. You're not going around the mountain again. You are going after it deeper this time. Mm. God is going after the root. He knows, like he knows that he can't just pull that whole thing out at once. Like it would,
Kayley:it would kill you.
Kim:So much of our personhood is formed around trauma. Yeah. It would destroy us. Yeah. So he gently takes us through seasons of fire to go deeper in that root. And there's a scripture in Jeremiah that says that he's the God that, um, uproot and plants. Mm. And um, and I personally have been through such a season of uprooting and planting in the last three years and a fiery furnace. And just a couple weeks ago, guess where I was sitting in my, um, prayer chair listening to John Bevere's, Bait of Satan, again, doing forgiveness work again. And, um, it was like this time I, you know. I'm not clueless about who needs to be on that list anymore. Yeah. And um, and I'm writing the list and I write a couple names and then I put me, me, me, me, me. I just put it on there like six times.'cause I knew I really needed to do some, some forgiveness work with myself. And, um, that morning, really early 3 or 3 30 or 4, the Lord had woken me up and taken me to Psalm 34. And um, and I was like, wow, that's amazing. It blessed my heart. I went back to sleep in peace and I'm doing this forgiveness work, and the Lord says, go back to Psalm 34. Hmm. So he had planted that seed hours earlier. For this moment, at the end of the scripture, it says, um, the Lord freely pardons those he loves, he declares them free and innocent. This is the passion translation. So I was like freely pardons, I mean freely pardons, and then free and innocent. And I heard him say to me, can you agree with me that you are freely pardoned free and innocent? That word innocent, that's hard because you, that's a word.
Kayley:It is, it's, it's hard to adopt that
Kim:because you know you're not Yeah. In terms of your actual behavior record. Yeah. Right. You've got a ledger. But yes, you do have a ledger. But Jesus said, though, you your sins were as red, as crimson. I have made them white as snow. Yeah. So you don't have a ledger with him. If you've received Jesus. And if you don't accept and believe the fact that you're freely pardoned free and innocent, you're invalidating what he did for you on the cross. Like yeah, it's a lose lose. He loses. You lose. Yeah. If you're like, sorry, I'm not free and innocent. I did this and this and this, and he's saying, what about my blood? What about my cross?
Kayley:Then he did it in vain.
Kim:Then he did it in vain for you. And I can't let that be. No. So I'm sitting there in that moment going, your blood can't be shed in vain for me. I have to agree with you. I want to agree with you. But these words are like, wow. Free and innocent. Free of all sin. Innocent, cleansed of all sin. And I just said, yes, Lord, I will agree with you. You, I will adopt what you say about me, even though I don't feel it. Even though it's hard to do when you see all the mistakes you've made. Yeah. And even though you feel like seasons of your life are so riddled with failure. Mm-hmm. Um, he's saying that you're free and innocent and freely pardoned. So I said, yes. I agreed with him. And then he said, now can you give that to everyone who's ever wronged you? Oof. I realize that one of the reasons people struggle so much to forgive is because they can't forgive themselves. You can't give away what you haven't received. Wow. You can't give away what you have not received
Kayley:Well.'cause like if you've forgiven yourself, then you know the freedom that comes from that. And so, and then also just letting other people off the hook really contributes to even more freedom for yourself.
Kim:Well, let's, I'll say it this way. I was like, okay, can I declare everyone who's hurt me as freely pardoned? And this is what the Lord said. He's like, can you pardon them in your court and let them just be in my court? Mm-hmm. So it doesn't mean they're pardoned with God. He only is the only one who can decide that.
Kayley:Yeah, I was kind of struggling with some forgiveness, I think, a couple years ago. And I remember someone explaining it to me as the transfer of debt. Yes. Of like, okay, well write the ledger, write the ledger of what that person owes you, and then give it to the Lord and say, Lord, you can have this. Exactly. I don't want responsibility even ever, you know, ever again. And, but you know, that goes back to me to self-hatred because I remember one day the Lord showed me how self-hatred and self-judgment was so full of pride. Like why would I ever assume to be judged when he's the only judge? That's right. So I am now taking him off the judgment seat and putting myself on there. Ooh. And look at how I'm condemning myself. Wow. Do I really wanna be on the judgment seat or do I want the good judge to be on the judgment seat? That's right. That's just, I mean, there's so many facets to self-loathing, but the prideful side of it is like, okay, who do you want to have justice?
Kim:Well, anytime we disagree with what God says about us, it is rooted in pride because we're saying what I believe and what I see and what I declare is truth. Yeah. And he's in his word saying, guess what my word is truth. What I declare is truth. So when we contradict that, there's no other source other than pride. Yeah. Now, sometimes it can be fear. Mm-hmm. We're afraid that we won't ever be who God says we are, but that's when our pride steps in and protects us from the fear. It always ends up bouncing over to pride. Yeah. So interesting. You know,
Kayley:I mean there's just never any fruit from fear ever. No. It's like the fruit comes from faith. Fruit comes from faith. That, Lord, I believe I am who you said I am. I am not going to mock the cross and what Jesus did and sit here and hate and shame myself for my own humanity when that's how you made me. And you knew that I was gonna do all the stupid crap that I've done my whole life. That's right. You knew I was gonna misstep and say something stupid. You knew that I was gonna trip and fall and look like a fool at, at any point in the day you knew that about me, and yet you still called me. You still put me in this seat to do this podcast. Even though sometimes I trip over my words and I have no idea what on earth. I'm saying like, and you just loved me through it. Yeah. That's just, he's too good to me, man. The goodness of God.
Kim:If we could see ourselves the way he saw us and kind of step outside of ourselves for a minute. Yeah, like just get over yourself, step aside, and just borrow his vision of you. And if you don't know what that is, ask him. Yeah. Lord, what do you see when you look at me? Let him tell you. Let him show you. And you know, another big revelation I had as of late about the self-hatred thing is, you know, we are a spirit, soul and a body. Mm-hmm. Our soul is our mind will and emotions. And, um, when we really say, oh, I can't stand myself, we are rejecting the essence of ourself. We're rejecting the uniqueness, we're rejecting, like of all the people in all the world, I hate me the most. Yeah. We are rejecting and despising this creation that God made and our spirit, soul and body. When they're disjointed and disconnected with hatred. Think about how many women hate their bodies.
Kayley:I mean all of them.
Kim:And you, you put hatred, which is a destructive, dark force, and you. Point that at your body and you wonder why your body is going haywire. Mm. Right. And then you hate your essence and you wonder why your spirit man isn't walking in victory over your flesh. Well, maybe it's because you've rejected it. Ooh, you've rejected it. And I've recently so Lord, so good. I repent. I break my agreement with the self-hatred that rejected parts of myself or my whole self and caused this disunity and this being that you made that's supposed to be unified like the father, son, and Holy Spirit are in unity. I'm not only supposed to be in unity with them, but unity within myself. Yeah. How do you live victoriously when you hate parts of yourself? I mean,
Kayley:your whole soul's divided.
Kim:You're divided. A, a house divided against itself cannot stand. Cannot stand. And a person who's struggling with self-loathing, they are a house divided against themselves.
Kayley:Mm. And the enemy's just loving it because he is out to steal, kill, and destroy, and destroy. He wants to steal the dreams, steal the joy. Kill your destiny.
Kim:Yes. Kill you if he could, but if he can't kill you, he's happy to kill all the good things that God has for you. Destroy everything God wants to give you and to steal whatever he can out from under you. And when we hate ourselves and we welcome condemnation, like I said, the word condemn means punishable by death. Yeah. We're inviting the murderer and the thief in. We're saying, I agree that I deserve that. And that we wonder why we get it.
Kayley:Yeah. No, I just, I don't wanna walk that way. Me either, man. I mean, my favorite days are the days that I have just been with the Lord and done what he said to do. Yeah. And listened to what he said to me about me and believed it. And I mean, the fruit that comes from that, the productivity that comes from that, the joy and the peace that comes from that. I mean, those are my absolute favorite days. That's right. Has nothing to do with like, what I've achieved. That's right. Like my greatest, my greatest accomplishment is knowing God. Amen. Because if I know him, then I'll, I'll hear what he has to say. I'll know his nature. What he has to say is good. It always makes me feel like a million bucks. Like that's what I wanna hear every day. That's what I wanna believe about myself.
Kim:It's not because he tickles your ears. He tells you hard things.
Kayley:Oh, he does.
Kim:He's not just saying, Kayley, you're the best thing since sliced white bread. You're my favorite. I mean, he's telling you where to make adjustments in your life. Oh, yeah. He's convicting you of sin, but it makes you feel like a million bucks because he sets me free. He's got you. Yes.
Kayley:Yeah. He says, he's like, Hey, did you know you were carrying that? I'm like, oh, wow. And then I feel a thousand pounds of lighter. Hey, did you know? Hey, did you know he's so kind? He always asks me questions whenever I'm like, Hey, what do I do about this relationship? And he's like, well, what do, what do you want? I'm like, what? You're just gonna ask me what I want? He's like, yeah, I want you to remember what you wanted. Remember what you told me you wanted? And I'm like, oh, yes, Lord. That's what I wanted. Wow. That's not in this relationship. Oh my goodness. You're right. I'll just, I'll never forget that it was in regards to a romantic relationship and he had to, he had to bring me back to the nucleus of my desires, and it was because I was, he was showing me that I was so quickly aborting them, and he didn't tell me what to do. He didn't say, you need to do this and stop doing this. He wasn't a dictator. That's right. He was. So, he just asked me, what do you want, like, how good of a father is that? Mm-hmm.
Kim:He knows how to recalibrate us and, and get us thinking all at the same time, and then to get us to tell ourselves the truth that we need to hear. He is a brilliant coach. I mean, he's great. Coaches ask great questions. God asks the best questions.
Kayley:The best questions. Agreed. Ugh. That's why he is my best friend,
Kim:expert level.
Kayley:Okay. So, you know, we're kind of coming towards the end and I just, I wanna make sure that we leave anybody listening to this with pragmatic tools to help them squash self-loathing. And so what would you say to those people?
Kim:Well, first of all, I would say you have to forgive yourself. You can do all the identity in Christ confessions and affirmations till the cows come home. But if you're holding a grudge against yourself, that that bitterness in you will cause hatred toward you. Hmm. So that is paramount. And it's exactly so good what I said. It's I forgiven and, and if there are specific things that you've done that you just can't let yourself off the hook for, then you name that thing by name. I forgive myself for, because Jesus forgave me for. Yeah. And, and however, if you have to do that every day, then forgiveness is step one. Then beyond that, you, you, uh, we all will not see ourselves valuable until we see ourselves through the eyes of God. And the Bible has just countless verses about who God says we are to him. Mm-hmm. Um, it's called your identity in Christ. When you step into faith in Christ, you step into Christ, into the family of God and into a new identity. The, the best metaphor I have for it is the royal family. Yeah. You know, Kate Middleton was not a royal. She was, uh, you know, a British citizen and she stepped into an entirely new identity. She now carries the identity of the Royal Family Protocol practices habits. The, she can't wear open toed shoes. Isn't that tragic? I just read that the other day.
Kayley:She can't?
Kim:She cannot wear open toed shoes as a royal. Clothes toed shoes only. Like there, and that's not really identity thing, but like there's this whole thing about,
Kayley:I just got really self-conscious wearing open toed shoes.
Kim:You're still royal in my book, Kayley. So, um, you know, just the idea that she has to carry herself a certain way, present a certain way, she is the gonna be the next queen consort of, of, you know, British Britain and it, all of its, uh, you know, surrounding nations that it owns or I don't know how that works anyway. Um, all the countries, all the land. Um, so, but imagine the shift in how she had to see herself. Yeah. Because she had to walk in there and assimilate a way of doing, being and thinking that she never had before. That's what we're doing in Christ. We are assimilating a way of doing, being and thinking that we didn't have before Christ. And I mean, there's a lot of resources. People can go to my website, thefewwomen.com and our resource page. And I have, uh, a resource called the a ABCs of Identity in Christ. Ooh. And it's all the verses in the Bible from A to Z? Yes. Oh. And it's seven pages long. Oh. So just to give you a little bit of a clue of how much God thinks of you, it's seven pages long and it's, I mean, the references are listed. It says who he says you are in the verse. The verses aren't all listed out. So if all the verses are written out, it would be a lot longer than seven pages. And that's just tells you that God could write a book about who you are to him and who you are in him now. So forgiveness and meditating and agreeing, meditating on, and agreeing with who he says you are. That's how you overcome self-loathing. That's how you look in the mirror and say, I like me. Yeah. I like how you made me. I also, um, encourage people to find out what their gifts are, like their natural giftings and their spiritual gifts, and you'll start to say, wow, you, you made me this way to do these things, and I really have fun doing them. You did a good job with me. God, it, it's not pride, it's gratitude. Like there are times where I'm like, thank you for the gifts that you gave me. I really enjoy using them, Lord, I really do. It's so fun for me to do what you made me to do. Thank you. Yeah. That's quite a contrast from I cannot believe you made me and allowed me to breathe. What were you thinking?
Kayley:But I mean, it's so, it's so obvious, right? It's like we get given the gift and then in its infancy the gift needs to be honed and shaped. Yeah. And as we're growing in our gift, we feel totally insecure with it because it's not good enough. And so the thing that should be delightful to us is now the bane of our existence. And we hate it. And we're so bad.
Kim:It's something we're trying to master, but we fear we never will.
Kayley:Yes. Mm-hmm. I mean, like the amount of hours I've performed on stage and all the times that I've totally sucked, sang the wrong note, sang out of pitch, did the wrong thing with my guitar, all of this stuff. It's like at some point I stopped commentating on it. I would in the middle of the error, like make a face or be frustrated at myself. And, and I don't, I mean, that ended years ago. On stage. On stage, you know, you're just mad 'cause you're like, I have to show everybody that I heard what I just did wrong, so that they know I'm not stupid. You know? It's like, it's so silly and it's like, okay, actually you're just drawing attention to the flaw, so instead of drawing attention to it, just keep singing. Just keep singing and focus on the next present moment. The next second. I mean, this is the reason why I love Aretha Franklin. You listen to her sing and she was not commenting on the last note she did eight notes ago. She was right in the center of every single note, allowing I believe Holy Spirit, to inform exactly what she did. She was so intuitive, so practiced, so, so stewarding of the present moment in the music
Kim:almost of every note, right?
Kayley:Of every note. She didn't get out ahead. She wasn't planning, oh, in about five notes, I'm gonna do this crazy run and everybody's gonna be so excited about it. You know? No, she was just living moment to moment and that's what makes her such an excellent singer. It was intuitive and, and, and improv, improvised, and, uh, awesome. And so I think about her a lot when I share music and I would say my best moments, my best songs, my best performances were where I was living present moment to moment in the song. Love it. Not thinking ahead.
Kim:I love it when you talk about Aretha, you get so excited.
Kayley:Well, I mean, she's, you know, she's a great one. She's a great one to emulate. But
Kim:chasing Aretha Cha,
Kayley:just chasing her down. I'm just chasing her, you know? But, um, no, this is so good. And I, you know, I like all the years that I've struggled with self hatred, the seasons, I've struggled with self-hatred. And, and I mean, even just last year you looked at me and you're like, Kayley, like, I'm, I'm worried for you. Because I was so, so deep in the trenches of it not knowing who I am. It's because I had allowed the enemy's voice to rule me. I was so steeped in what he thought of me that I totally forgot what God thought of me. In fact, I disbelieved what God thought of me. I, I believed that God didn't wanna talk to me. I believed that everything I heard him say, I had heard wrong. I was rewriting history Wow. Of my revelation from God based on the fact of what the enemy was saying to me in that season. And man, I was struggling. I was a mess. I was not walking with light, I don't think. I mean, and you just, I'll just never forget how you looked at me. You're just like, I'm worried for you and you've never been worried for me like that. And it took, all it took was crazy. I, it wasn't like I, I had a great impactful feeling of, oh, I feel the clouds parting and the shi the chills and the shivers down my spine of a breakthrough. I just remember I stepped out into the hall and I said, Lord. You do speak to me, and I claim that in Jesus' name. I break off in Jesus' name every lie that I agreed with the enemy about me hearing your voice. Wow. I know. I hear your voice. I have a beautiful history and record of hearing your voice, of hearing the beautiful revelation you've given to me that has shaped my life, shaped other people's lives. And I claim it once again. And I rebuke the lies of the enemy. Amen. And I didn't feel any different, but I knew that the authority came back immediately. Wow. Because that's really all it takes.
Kim:So good. So good. Kayley. And that was such a sign of your growth, of anyone's growth to be like, oh. I slid down into the pit again. And then to be able to course correct. Yeah. By going, wait. Okay. See it for what it is. Yes. I'm using my authority. I don't care how I feel. I'm agreeing with God. I'm not waiting for the emotion. I'm not waiting for an encounter. I'm not waiting for an angel sighting. No. I'm just gonna use my authority and get outta this pit right now. Yeah. That's so powerful
Kayley:for, I did not give you a spirit of fear, but a spirit of love and power and self-control. Yes. It's like that is what we have within us. When we partner with Holy Spirit, when we invite Holy Spirit to dwell within us, we have his authority. Even though I'm human, simply human full of flaws, I can walk with the authority of the creator of the world. Yes. Like that's crazy that I could behold that.
Kim:Wow. I love that.
Kayley:It's so good. jammies and talk about Jesus and people and problems and victory and kingdom things,
Kim:dreams. We're having dreams like interpreting dreams and or dreams. We're dreaming like with God.
Kayley:Or the revelation we recently had. It's everybody needs a spiritual mom. Um, if she had the ability to have you as a spiritual child, I'm sure she would.
Kim:Apparently. I like the whole children thing.
Kayley:I know, but I claim her and God knew that I claim her. She's 11 kids, but I'm her 12. It's fine. It's fine, it's fine. Um, uh, but anyway, to that regard, if you don't have a mother figure in your life, one that's counseling you and mentoring you, why don't you just pray and ask the Lord? Yes. Because he's got one for you. Yeah. He's got a spiritual father for you. Yes. He has those roles for you, and he's wanting you to ask him for that. He wants to know that you're interested in talking with him and asking him, it says in. Psalm 34. Those who look to the Lord will be radiant with joy. And that means to turn your gaze upon him. It's actually not just turning your vision. It's turning your soul. Wow. To turn upon the Lord. It's to turn your whole soul to him and ask for help. And it says You'll be radiant with joy. You will glow. Don't you wanna be radiant? I wanna be radiant. I do. It's so good.
Kim:I wanna be radiant with his joy.
Kayley:Yeah. You might freak people out a little bit 'cause you'll be glowing everywhere. And people are like, what is that?
Kim:I mean, I think about that. Moses came down from the mountain and says, radiant. He was glowing.
Kayley:People were freaked out.
Kim:They were scared. They were scared because it was supernatural.
Kayley:They don't know what to do with it. How do you behold it?
Kim:This world needs supernatural radiance. Supernatural. A lot of things right now. It's only gonna happen when we partner and agree with God and we let him use us to do it.
Kayley:Yes. Amen to that. So everybody, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please go on my website, biblebish.com. If there was something that shook you to your core, please tell me. There's a testimonial page on there. I want you to just tell me your testimony. I wanna celebrate it. I wanna be able to pray for you and. I, I love you. I'm so glad that Kim was able to join me in this. I had no idea what we were gonna talk about until it slapped me in the face and I realized self-loathing was the thing. And so I hope you're able to take these tools that it blesses you. And I just wanna, I just wanna pray for them actually right now. And Jesus' name. Lord, I just pray that anybody listening to this, that if they are struggling with self condemnation, self-loathing, God, I pray that you redirect their ears. Mm-hmm. Redirect their hearing so that they're actually hearing you and not the enemy. Help them discern the difference between that conviction and that life, death condemning there Lord, that the enemy is bringing into their ears, into their hearts and souls and minds. And so, God, I just pray that you anoint their heads, anoint their hearts. Let them be delivered from the forgiveness. The forgiveness that they need to, to take a hold for themselves. Lord, guide them into that conversation with themselves. And even if it's hard, even if they're doing it kicking and screaming, Lord, show them what it really looks like to, for to forgive because you're the ultimate forgiver. Lord, if we need to learn how to forgive, we just gotta look to you, Lord. And so God, I just pray that you set them free right now in Jesus' name, from any self harboring of hatred and loathing, God in Jesus' name. That is not your story for us. That is not what you're writing for us, that you've got freedom for us available to us right now. In Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Y'all be good. This is your Bible Bish reporting for duty. I hope you were changed today. That is all.