Bible Bish

The Secret to Healthy Love | Guest: Sophie Jolls

• Kayley Bishop • Season 1 • Episode 3

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What happens when you let God lead your love life?
In this episode, Sophie Jolls shares how God broke toxic cycles, redefined her femininity, and led her into a love story built on trust and truth.

We talk dating, marriage, sex, and why obedience to God changes everything.
 Whether you're single or married, this will shake up what you think you know about love.

✨ Share your testimony at https://www.biblebish.com/testimony
🎙️ Come for the tea, stay for the truth.

Thanks for tuning in to Bible Bish!

Come for the tea, stay for the truth -you just might leave changed. 🕊️

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In the name of love, this is your Bible Bish reporting for duty. ♡

Sophie:

in my first marriage, I was addicted to food. I was addicted to television. I had multiple affairs during my first marriage, because my flesh ruled the roost. Wow.

Kayley:

You don't respect yourself anymore, and then you start to see other people not respect you. Mm-hmm. And you're telling me you'd rather have air quotes fun.

Sophie:

While I was still experiencing feelings of love with him, the Lord told me, this is not your guy. And I had to break it off and walk away.

Kayley:

Hello. Welcome to the Bible Bish. Your host, Kayley Bishop, where we talk about all the things, all the drama, come for the tea, stay for the truth, and you might just leave changed. That's what we're hoping, right? Because in the name of love, I want you to learn how to walk more deeply with God because he is ready and wanting to set you free to break you into your destiny, to get you out of your chains, to get you outta the prison. And I'm here hopefully with some keys to unlock that little prison cell for you. And I've got my dear friend Sophie.

Sophie:

What's up Bish?

Kayley:

Sophie Jolls and um, I actually met Sophie a couple years ago. She is a very renowned vocal coach in Nashville, Tennessee. She's got this incredible studio. Off of Music Row, but we're not here to talk about the voice.

Sophie:

Darn.

Kayley:

This is the voice. We're here to talk about relationships because Sophie has found herself stepping into this role of Relationship Guru.

Sophie:

So your word's not mine.

Kayley:

I know I'm giving you that title because I don't really know what to call it. And I'm not sure if you have a title for it just yet either.

Sophie:

I, I don't, no. I don't have a title,

Kayley:

but Sophie, I want you to tell everybody, um, kind of just like a brief little testimony about you navigating relationships and where your faith kind of comes in.

Sophie:

Yeah. Okay. So first of all, I've been divorced. We have that in common. Yes. And, uh, many of the situations surrounding our divorces are very similar. This is, I think we met through the music industry, but then I think we connected over very similar stories regarding relationships.

Kayley:

Yeah. It's unfortunate, but it's also blessed at the same time. It's like I'm not alone.

Sophie:

Yeah, no, you're definitely not alone. And um, and so this whole journey of like me pressing into relational things just kind of happened about a decade ago. I was fresh off my divorce and I was going to church and my whole, you know, my single world was just my friends at church basically at that point. And I was watching all of my friends just have the most awful dating experiences, like women who were hurting, ready for a mate, but they just were striking out like on dating apps or whatever, or women who were sleeping around and then wondering, why don't the guys take me seriously? Or they were like totally, um, closing themselves off to a possibility of a relationship and. And, and it affected their, even their platonic relationships because they were just kind of a closed off type of person. Interesting. And so anyways, I was watching all this happening and I was actually having the best time dating online. Like I had amazing experiences. Hmm. And I was just noticing. Th that all my friends were having the opposite. Mm. And I was like, okay, first of all, I gotta, I gotta find a guy and become stable in my re relationship before I can really have any authority to speak about it. Okay. So let me, let me fix my track record. Okay. And then let me just observe, like I'm kind of a researcher in my head. Sure. Like, I'll just observe patterns Okay. With things. And so I was like, let me just sit back and observe the patterns for a while and see where this goes. And then over the course of the last 10 years, people, friends of mine have just come to me for relational advice. Um, I found an amazing man. I got remarried. I'm now a stepmom. I've been married for six years. Amazing guy. The most perfect guy for me, not perfect. But perfect for me. And so it's been such a redemption of that. And, and all of my friends had been asking me advice, and so I was like, okay. I was like, I need to write a book or something. I just had this like burden, like kind of like you have for this podcast. Totally. Like, there's just something, you know, you need to do that you're not gonna be fulfilled without doing. Yeah. And that's this for me, I mean, I, I'm not a guru at all. Like, I'm a voice coach, I'm a singer. Like I, you know, like I don't understand where this is coming from, but it's, it's, I've just learned. In almost 40 years of living that if something will not stop knocking on your door, you really need to start listening. Yeah. So I am now in the research phases of a book. I don't know, a podcast maybe. Yeah, I don't know, a course, I don't know. But it's, it has started about six weeks ago with a small group of women, um, coming over to my house and we've just been talking relationship, so

Kayley:

including me. Yay. I was one of those women. And man, did the light bulbs go off? I was like, you know, I've done so many, no, I don't wanna call it self-help, but I've done so many leadership retreats where I've learned how to steward myself in every way, because in order for me to lead others well, it starts with leading myself well, and I've been blessed to be positioned in so many opportunities for me to level up. But yet still, Sophie, you offered so much revelation that I was like, I've gotta start making a change in my life. Wow. With how I approach dating and men, and I mean, like, I've. To my last relationship ended, I don't know, a little less than a year ago. And at each relationship post-divorce, I thought was my husband for different reasons. And so kind of walking through that and then realizing that they weren't, and really seeing how God wanted to heal that which in me kept going back to the wrong thing. Mm. Yeah. And I think that's what he really wants to do. I mean, we hear time and time again about women that go back and they date the same man over and over again. Mm-hmm.

Sophie:

Or the same type cast of man. Yes.

Kayley:

Yep. And so, I don't know. I guess that leads me to the first question, like. Have you encountered that with your friends? Have you encountered that with yourself? Yes. And what happened to break the cycle?

Sophie:

Oh, yes. It, the way that I describe it is like, God takes us through grades. Yeah. Like, you can't pass, you can't go on to third grade until you've passed second grade. Mm. Like my daughter, there was a second there for a minute where we thought, is she gonna make it past fourth grade? There were, she had some struggle. She had like a interesting teacher and it was just, she struggled to learn that year. Yeah. She made it. But if she hadn't made it, guess what? You gotta take fourth grade again. Ooh. So you go around the same mountain.

Kayley:

I've done it

Sophie:

and it's, and it's for your protection. Like, God, you know, so many of us see God as this awful, you know, like, um. Like in, um, in the movie Bruce Almighty, where it's like, he's a big mean kid on a, an hill, and I'm the ant, you know, with a magnifying glass. But it, it's not that at all. He's actually trying to protect you because you cannot sustain level like the next level. You can't sustain what you're gonna learn in grade five if you have a past grade four.

Kayley:

There's foundation there.

Sophie:

So, so I went around the same mountain several times before the cycle broke, and it was, it was just by the grace of God, he, he, he got ahold of me and somehow I was able to listen this time.

Kayley:

What was the breaking point for you?

Sophie:

Um, the breaking point was I, I dated, so I, I got divorced basically because I had an emotional affair and then I dated the guy that I had an emotional affair with. Um, wonderful person. We, and, and I thought at the time he was the love of my life. Mm. Um, but. It was like, okay, hold on. This is, I, I'm doing the same thing where I am placing my entire happiness in the hand of a man. So my ex-husband, I was never happy because I had given him control to either make me happy or not.

Kayley:

Oof.

Sophie:

And he didn't make me happy. So then I dated someone very opposite from my ex-husband, but I also gave him the power, the full power. I relinquished my power to, to be happy on my own or to be happy with me in God. And so. I was awfully happy with him, the guy that I had an affair with, so happy. And I thought, this is it, you know? And then at one point the Lord said, no, because you still rely on him solely for your happiness. There's potential for trouble. And it's not, it doesn't have a good foundation. Oof. And so actively, while I was still experiencing feelings of love with him, the Lord told me, this is not your guy. And I had to break it off and walk away. And it was during the next few months where God was like, you can't rely on anyone else but me for that. And, and also the things that I've deposited within you to find happiness and fulfillment and purpose. He said, I've already put the purpose in you, but if you're not doing it with your hands, there's not gonna be fulfillment. So there was, there was a lot of aspects, but it was, it was like a three or four month period of time where it was just utter breaking point. Like I, I lost the love of my life at the time. Yeah. You know? So

Kayley:

I feel like that's so good though. And it's not just romantic experiences that we encounter, like putting our happiness on other people.

Sophie:

Yes.

Kayley:

The responsibility of it. I mean, we can do that with our parents. We can do that with our children.

Sophie:

Yes,

Kayley:

we can do that with our careers. It doesn't even have to be a person. It's like, oh, I think that this thing is going to be my source of happiness. And time and time again, we're just left heartbroken because we put our hope in something that wasn't God. I mean, God has proven to me time and time again that he will not disappoint me. Like there's never been a time when God left me unfulfilled or unhappy. Mm. Even in the correction moments. Yes. Even when he's like, you need to leave this. Even when he, like, with my affair partner, like leaving that and calling it quits for like finally it was like dying to myself. Yes. It was dying to my flesh because my flesh had yearned so completely for connection. Mm. For so many years. I mean the majority of my adult life. Mm. And then now I had it, but it was a counterfeit

Sophie:

Yes.

Kayley:

And God's like, I'm not in it to give you the counterfeit, I actually wanna give you the real,

Sophie:

the real thing. Thing. I love that part of your story, honestly.'cause it's so mirrors my own. I can very much relate. Yes. Counterfeit is still not, it's not what you actually want.

Kayley:

Okay. So how would you coach someone that you knew 100% was in a counterfeit relationship, but didn't believe that they were? Um,

Sophie:

I, well, first of all, I would, I would not counsel them unless I was in a position in their life to counsel them.

Kayley:

Sure.

Sophie:

But it, assuming I am and they've come to me for advice.

Kayley:

Yes.

Sophie:

Then, I mean, I guess I would just ask questions. Yeah. Because there's, there's little that I can do to convince someone,

Kayley:

right.

Sophie:

If they're in that position. If you had come to me when I was in that position before I knew that I had heard from the Lord about it, and I felt convicted.

Kayley:

Yeah.

Sophie:

If you had tried to convince me. In fact, my parents did. They tried to convince me and, and I wouldn't listen. So I think really the only thing you can do if you're, if you're a friend of someone who's in that position, just ask them questions. Allow them to come to their own conclusion. Allow them space to fall. Allow them space to, to come to the wrong conclusion and to learn from their mistakes. Yeah. The, the, we all wanna help someone when they're in that position so much. I do. Yeah. But having been there and having. Had blinders on my eyes and cotton in my ears.

Kayley:

It's true. I did too. And you know, like I have people in my life that could see it was bad. Um, and they were the wrong people in my life to talk to about it because all they did was left me feeling more ashamed. Yep. They criticized me, they accused me, they shamed me to no end. Mm-hmm. And meanwhile, I'm suffering from like the deepest heartbreak I've ever experienced. And I am actively every day turning it over to God saying I cannot do this on my own. Like, you have to sustain me. I mean, it was the season where I lived on my knees. Wow. And simultaneously I lived with someone, I had a roommate that just brought, shamed me at every turn. And so

Sophie:

focusing on the sinful part of it, basically mistake.

Kayley:

Yeah. It's like they, I think I represented their deepest fears and they could not handle it. Wow. They could not handle a, a representation of their fears. Living with them. Wow. And they put a scarlet letter on me and they judged me for it. And, and I ended up falling into like a depression as a result. Because who you're aligned with directly affects your mental health. Absolutely. And that's not just romantic, that's familial. That's your friends. And I had to learn a big lesson there of just because they have Jesus on their lips doesn't mean they're safe.

Sophie:

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the biggest life hack that I've learned so far is to keep your inner circle very small. And even if you live with someone, that doesn't necessarily have to be someone who's in your inner circle.

Kayley:

No. Yeah.

Sophie:

But proximity doesn't give someone access.

Kayley:

Yeah, that's true. Okay. You talked about something during your women's small group that I really wanna touch on because it was fascinating to me and we talked about alpha females and alpha males.

Sophie:

Yeah.

Kayley:

And I kind of wanna touch on that a little bit and you kind of describe a little bit of both and what happens when we fall under stress.

Sophie:

Yeah. So the whole alpha female thing, alpha male, that term came from a study that was done on wolves.

Kayley:

Okay.

Sophie:

And I learned this from my nutritionist.

Kayley:

We love it.

Sophie:

Yeah. Shout out to Candy Frazier. Um, she's an unbelievable, she, she was sharing about this, how they did this whole study on wolves and they're like, okay. They, they had these eight wolves that they had in captivity and they observed them and they wrote down everything. And they noticed that there was like one male and one female that like. Kind of became dominant over the whole, I don't know, would you call it? Herd

Kayley:

Pack?

Sophie:

Pack? Thank you. The herd of. So it, it was commonly believed and there was this book that was released, released about it, how there's always a, a dominant male and a dominant female. Mm. And they fought, uh, oh, you know, those, those two fought over the resources and kind of controlled the rest of the pack. Interesting. Okay. But this whole concept was disproved about 60, I think 60 years later.

Kayley:

Okay.

Sophie:

When they did this study, the same guy who wrote the book disproved his own theory by going and studying wolves in the wild because he said, wait, if they're captive, they may or may not act differently. So he went to the wild and studied, um, these packs, and what he found was that. In captivity. One, one of each gender just decided that they were gonna rule the roost and became more aggressive and more like protective in a bad way. Like okay, very vi, almost violent. And in the, in the wild, what they found was that the alpha male and female were just mom and dad over one little family unit. Their daughters, their sons. Then the, the mates of the daughters and the sons and their little kids, and it was just mom and dad and they, and so they became this, it became this more of like this family picture. Yeah. Okay. So when you look at people, yes, there's. A ma typically in a, in a, in a relationship, there is a someone who is more masculine and someone who is more feminine. Yes. And I mean in nature. Okay. Like feminine nature, like men and women both have a masculine and feminine nature.

Kayley:

Okay.

Sophie:

I'll prove it. When you're single, you have to protect yourself.

Kayley:

Yes.

Sophie:

You walk in a dark alley, you have to be the one to look around and go Okay.'cause Totally. So that you're leaning in that moment, you're leaning into your masculine nature. If you run a business, I run a business. I have to be the head honcho. I have to be, um, very decisive. Yeah. I have to be protective and provision oriented. Yeah. For the business. If we don't have resources, I can't pay my people. Right. Right. That's a, I'm leaning into my masculine, uh, nature there. It doesn't mean I've suddenly become a man. Right. It means that I'm. Leaning into that nature as a feminine person or at, when you're leaning into the feminine nature, you're, you're dealing more with like spaciousness, you know, creativity. You give me ingredients, I'll give you a meal, you give me sperm, I'll give you a baby. Um, so that creativity and that expressiveness for the feminine nature is really, really important. Well, what happens in stress is we kind of go to the opposite.

Kayley:

Okay. Have you seen this in your marriage?

Sophie:

Um, 100%.

Kayley:

Can you explain?

Sophie:

Yes. Okay. So in stress, there was a period of time where, um, my husband was out of work. He was trying to start a new business. It wasn't the right business for him. So he didn't make money for this eight, eight month period of time. It was really rough and he was super stressed about it. So he would kind of fall into this, um. I don't know, what's the word? Like deferential kind of passive, like I'm gonna defer passive. Yes. I'm gonna defer to you. I am, what should we do? Uh, you take the charge. Yes. Like you lead, you lead the pack. I just, I just need to like, curl up and watch some TV and eat some chocolate, you know? Okay. And it was, it was really interesting. I could tell that it had a huge, devastating effect on his confidence at the time. Yeah. It was, it was one of those mountains for him that, it was the, that was his last pass around that particular mountain. Okay. So that was the breaking point for him. Um, and then for me, I still was working. So guess what I, what mode I went into protect, provide, provide, conquer, take care of my family. That's right. Right. And, and obviously in the moment I had to step up and do that. Yeah. Like, doesn't mean that it's wrong, it just means that it does have an effect mm-hmm. On the two people in the relationship. So, yeah.

Kayley:

And how did, how did it resolve?

Sophie:

It resolved when, um, when he realized this business that I'm working on is not what I'm cut out for. He, he got, he got a revelation of his purpose. Mm. And that he was out of line with his purpose.

Kayley:

I feel like, I feel like that's a whole different word. It's like when we're not walking in purpose, we, we don't actually know our identity. Yeah. And then we're just grasping at straws of like, whatever feels good. And as soon as it gets hard, we're like, we're a bouncing. Yeah. Meanwhile, like, if you're purposeful in what you wanna do, like for me, this podcast, like, it was really hard in the beginning, and then God's like, just grow up and start asking for help. I'm like, okay. Like I will. Sure. And then all of a sudden it came more easy and like I, I remember talking to somebody saying like, oh, that's so much work to do that. And I said, but it doesn't feel like work when you know it's your purpose. Mm. When you know you're supposed to do it, you walk in. Knowing who you belong to, and like God totally had his hand on this Yes. Whole thing. Yes. And so I'm like, okay, well I'm just gonna walk forward and trust that he's gonna provide and like make it easy. Which also I've been, I've been pondering this concept of the yoke. Mm. Because in scripture it says, my yoke is easy and my burden is light. And I'm like, okay. So I have a choice then. Because if God is calling me into a purpose, has given me a purpose, calling me into a place, his yoke is easy and my and his burden is light. So it should be easy. Mm-hmm.

Sophie:

But only. If you're in the yoke

Kayley:

Exactly.

Sophie:

So if you're, if you're equally yoked with God,

Kayley:

yes.

Sophie:

The purpose of Yoking two oxen together is so that they can pull equally and they can go in the same direction and at the same rate of speed. Correct. So if you're not yoked with him and you're trying to go this way, and he's like, look, it would be easy if you had help.

Kayley:

Totally. And I think like I have to make the distinguishment between like, am I yoked to my fears? Mm. Am I yoked to my limiting beliefs?

Sophie:

That's so good.

Kayley:

My doubts about myself, or am I really yoked to who God says I am?

Sophie:

That's so good.

Kayley:

And that's a choice you have to make every day. But like it totally changed my mind. I'm like, things don't have to be so hard.

Sophie:

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Kayley:

Why did I think that life had to be hard?

Sophie:

There's always challenges with life. Of course. Of course. But no, if it's hard. Then something is not aligned. Something is not right. Like with me, I'm a, I'm a strong woman. I've always been independent. I've run a business since I was 20. Like I just, I get crap done. Yeah. Okay. But when aligned with a man who has a spiritual calling to be the protection and the provi provision for my family from my house, when I'm leaning into that tendency, I'm, something is not aligned and it emasculates him, you know, not that I'm not gonna go to work and do my share around the house, like, you know, there's, there's a partnership of course, but like I have recently just. Allowed myself to sit back into my feminine nature a little bit. And it has utterly transformed the dynamic of my marriage. And it was great before, but it's even better now.

Kayley:

Wow. Sophie. Okay. So

Sophie:

I feel like a woman for the first time in my life, 39 years old,

Kayley:

just by leaning into your femininity.

Sophie:

Yep. But there are moments when I, very specifically, it's kind of what we've talked about in dating too. Women are really designed to open emotional doors. Okay. So we are designed to kind of create this suction or vacuum of space. And the men in our life either choose to walk through it or not. They choose to walk through the emotional door or not, for instance.

Kayley:

Okay. Yes. I want a practical

Sophie:

Yes. So as a married person, okay. I can give you a dating, uh, example as

Kayley:

I want both.

Sophie:

Okay.

Kayley:

Because i'm single and I need to learn how to open emotional doors.

Sophie:

Okay. So as a married person, I could, I could want my husband to take me on more dates. Okay. So the masculine nature side of me wants to go and sit down and be like, can we have a talk? I'm, you're really not doing enough with our dating life. And just because we're married doesn't mean that you get to stop dating me. And we haven't, we haven't been out in forever and we haven't tried all the new restaurants. You know, that's the masculine side of me.

Kayley:

it's s nagging.

Sophie:

Totally. It's what it's really doing is providing and protecting.

Kayley:

Oof.

Sophie:

Okay. That's really when women nag, that's really what it is. It's, I'm out for me, I wanna protect myself and protect the, the, the appearance of the relationship. Mm. And provide the, provide the solution.

Kayley:

Okay. Yes.

Sophie:

But that's not my job.

Kayley:

No.

Sophie:

So what I did instead, the the feminine nature side of me sits him down and says, oh man, I'm just feeling so disconnected lately. I feel really lonely. I'm not really sure what to do about it. And I just, I feel like there's this part of me that's really dry and I'm. And I'm crying as I'm saying this because masculine side would not be crying. Right? So feminine side is like, man, I'm just, there's this ache and I can't figure it out, and I don't really know what to do about it. What should we do? And you know what my amazing masculine husband says? First he hugs me, you know? And he really just comforts me. And then he's like, you know what? I really need to get better about doing dates. How about, and he comes up with a plan for our dates, right? And it's all him. And in fact, now he feels like such a winner and a hero because he, it was his idea.

Kayley:

Okay. Okay. Bear with me. Do you feel like any part of that is manipulative?

Sophie:

No. Okay. I, and I, I can understand why people would say that. Or or think that

Kayley:

yes,

Sophie:

but here's what it is

Kayley:

because I've done that. I really have done that too.'cause I'm like, yes, I know some people wanna be the reason for the solution.

Sophie:

Exactly.

Kayley:

And I'm like, I'll let you have it.

Sophie:

Yes you can.

Kayley:

It like, if that gets the job done.

Sophie:

Yeah. That's really what it is. It's, it's honestly, if it's, if it's manipulative to, to go that route to allow the guy space.'cause women's brains, they work way faster than men anyways. Okay. Right. They've already, they've already thought 20 steps ahead for every little element of their life. Remember, women are spaghetti, men are waffles.

Kayley:

Oh wait. Unpack that for a second because I didn't know this.

Sophie:

Yes. Women are spaghetti. Women are spaghetti. We can talk about this thing and this. This is connected to this string over here that moves this whole cluster of noodle mess. Yeah. Right. And all the things in our life are all connected and interwoven.

Kayley:

Interesting.

Sophie:

The guys are like, no, we are in a waffle square. We are talking about this thing. We are dealing with this thing right now. They're super zoned in

Kayley:

That's compartmentalization.

Sophie:

Yes. That's a part of what makes them great at fighting wars and going off to work and providing, no matter how they feel emotionally.

Kayley:

Wow.

Sophie:

This is what gives them the upper hand in many areas of life as a protector in a provider. Okay. This is why they're able to cover us as women, not that there's any, any lesser value in a woman. Right, right. But it's different functions. This is what gives them the upper hand in that way. Mm. So if it's manipulative. For me to, to, to give, let him have the space to come to his own conclusion. Then it's, it's manipulative for a guy to run me a bath and bring me chocolate and flowers because he knows that after I'm relaxed and I've read a good book and I've had a relaxing soak, he probably gonna get some, you know, like, is it manipulative? No, it's, it's us working with knowledge as key of our strengths and weaknesses. Yeah, that's good. And making space for each other.

Kayley:

That's really good, Sophie. Okay, now I need a single person's take on emotionally emotional open doors.

Sophie:

Yes. So it's often referred to as dropping the hanky.

Kayley:

Yes.

Sophie:

We've refer, we, we refer to it as that. I actually, I like the term opening doors a little bit better.'cause I think it's more accurate. Dropping a handkerchief. I don't know. For me it like brings up these mental images of when. Prince Henry is playing tennis with the marquee deli moge in ever after. And all the women are on the sideline and he like gets knocked into the fence and all the women are like, ah. And they put their handkerchiefs and then he walks away and he is like pulling them out of his pockets and stuff. It's just like it brings up this silliness. Yeah, totally. This kind of silly connotation. So opening emotional doors I think is a lot more mature way of thinking about it. Sure. But basically as a dating person, you, you know, or someone who's single and let's say ready to mingle, you're not even dating yet. Let's say you're at a coffee shop and there's a cute guy in the line right in front of you, and

Kayley:

which has happened, has happened,

Sophie:

totally happened, and you, and you've both made eye contact, so you know that you're kind of like, oh, there's a, it could be a little something there.

Kayley:

Okay, let's just pause for a second. Because for me to make eye contact with attractive, with an attractive man is like a once in a blue moon thing. It's like as soon as I recognize the attractive person in the room to me, I can't look at them. I ignore them at all costs. Why? Because I don't know why. Give me all the men that I'm not interested in and I will look at them in the eyes and I'll have the most profound, deep, meaningful conversation. But the one guy I'm interested in, I literally flee from riddle me that. Okay. But question.

Sophie:

Okay. Are you just. Initially attracted to him or truly interested because those are two different levels.

Kayley:

Okay. I'm thinking of like first contact. Yeah, it's initial attraction.

Sophie:

Yeah. So if it's initial attraction, there are so many questions to be answered before you even know if you're freaking interested in the guy. You know, it's kind of like the analogy my grandmother gave. I talked to her about dating one time and she said, Sophie, I don't get all these people in today's world how they're all so confused about dating. She's the sweetest girl. And she's like, back, back when I was dating everybody dated everybody. She was like, and it wasn't no big deal. She was like, I went out with a different man every week and we were all friends and, and nobody had an issue with it. It wasn't until somebody decided to start going steady that you knew they were a couple. And that's where the term going steady came from is because everyone was. Just going inter. Yeah. Yeah. They were intermingling, they were going out. Oh gosh. They were, it's kind of like friends, you know, like Yeah. The, the, the show friends. Even in the nineties, I feel like they did that. Like, Hey, I need a date to my friend's wedding. We're friends, but can you be my date right now? We take this term, go on a date or be my date as like, oh, I better be ready to marry this person by the end of this one hour, or else on the chopping block.

Kayley:

Okay.

Sophie:

And so you have to have a little more openness basically, if you are attracted to the person, there are so many other questions to answer before you even figure out, okay, is there compatibility here? Mm-hmm. Is there interest? Mm-hmm. And then you have to determine is there mutual interest? Because you could feel you're compatible, you could be interested, but if you're casting a net and that fish doesn't wanna be in your net. What right do you have totally. Or what will benefit you to try to keep them in the net?

Kayley:

I mean, I feel like I'm decent at reading the room.

Sophie:

That's amazing. I mean, that's hard,

Kayley:

but still I can be completely caught off guard with someone having feelings for me. Like yeah. Even a few people that I'm like, they what? They liked me. I'm like, okay, whatever. Um, but then at the same time, like I, I know maybe you'll probably poke holes in this theory of mine, but I will have a conversation with someone that, you know, I've deemed attractive and I'm now probing to see if like there's someone, I actually wanna entertain it on a date and I can pretty much tell within one conversation that I wanna date them or not.

Sophie:

Same.

Kayley:

Okay. So that's not bad.

Sophie:

Same. No. You have to have standards. Yeah. You have to have standards where, where the prob and you have to, you have to act on the standards quickly. That's what I've learned too.

Kayley:

Okay. Wait, what do you mean

Sophie:

you have to act on the standards quickly? Like the, like the first, second you realize it's a no. Then why prolong it? You don't have to be a B about it. You don't have to be rude. But you know this, an example I can give was, uh, um, a bumble date. I went on one time. I typically tend, when I was dating, I typically wanted to get together with the guys as quick, as quickly as possible, because you could have three weeks of stunning text conversation. You meet the guy and it's an instant no. And you feel like I've wasted three weeks of my life.

Kayley:

Yeah, totally.

Sophie:

So I would typically hold everything very loosely. Like my grandmother, anything is possible. I, I'm open to really anything. And then as soon as it's a no, you're, you're off as soon as it's a yes. Okay. I may make some more space for you in my life. Mm. But there was this guy, I talked to him for maybe three or four days. He was like, Hey, do you wanna go out? I was like, sure, let's meet for a drink. So we met at, um, at this bar, uh, restaurant slash we met at the bar because I was like, I'm not gonna have, you know, a sit down dinner with you until I know what the situation is. Soon as he stood up to shake my hand, I was like, Nope. It's a, it's a no for me. And I knew

Kayley:

it's a no for me dog.

Sophie:

I knew it instantly. Yeah. And so I was faced with two choices. Like I know that my standard already exists. Do I waste his time? Because it's not really very kind. No. To make the guy pay for my drink and then at the end when I already know.

Kayley:

Yeah, totally. Right.

Sophie:

So what is actually kinder? So he stood up, he shook my hand. He, you know, you made sure that we were meeting the right person and we had identified each other and he was like, okay, do you wanna drink? And I was like, I was like, you know what? No, I'm so sorry. This is a no for me and I really don't wanna waste your time. And I really appreciate you asking. I know that takes courage and I really love that we got a chance to meet together and just say hi. But you know, it's a no for me, so I wanna free up your time to go and pursue something that might be a yes. And he was like, okay,

Kayley:

see, that's such a kind way of saying it.

Sophie:

Yeah, exactly.

Kayley:

So good.

Sophie:

So you have standards, but you're not, you know, an a-hole in, in the way you see, communicate them.

Kayley:

See, okay. But, but this is also a confidence thing too, because I decided a while ago that if somebody was gonna ask me out and I knew that I was not interested Mm. I would tell them no, and I would say thank you. Yeah. Um, and I have turned down many men very quickly.

Sophie:

Yes.

Kayley:

And some of them pretend like they weren't asking me out. I'm like, dude, like now you're just proving the point for why I said no. Like, don't do that. You're not even owning that you're asking me out. Mm.

Sophie:

Their ego is probably bruised a little bit.

Kayley:

Yes. And I'm just, in the meantime, I'm just trying to show respect for their time. Yeah. And show respect for me and like

Sophie:

Exactly.

Kayley:

I think there was a time when I, when I really sought male attention, like I needed to be seen. It was actually specifically, I think right before I got into. My relationship with my ex-husband, and even during my marriage, because I just did not get any attention from him. Mm-hmm. I just, I think I walked a little different, like, I invited just male conversation, anything.'cause I was so hungry. Yeah, yeah. Um, but now it's like, I'm so much more confident in who I am. I don't need a male to affirm me. And so I'm not gonna string someone along just to be, you know, to get a compliment.

Sophie:

just to get a hit.

Kayley:

I know. Like, I don't want that. I just don't, I don't wanna use a guy that way. And I don't know. And so I'm very quick. I don't, don't, I don't like to ghost people. Um, I try to avoid that and just show respect for people and be communicative. That's so good. But it's hard. It's like, I also am a people pleaser. I also want to, I like having affirmation from people. Mm-hmm. And so

Sophie:

who doesn't?

Kayley:

Who doesn't?

Sophie:

Yeah. Especially if you don't have someone to go home to every night. That's. Yeah. There's a, there's an open space there. You know, there's a void. I totally get that. Not that you are, not, that you're not whole until you have someone, but it can get lonely.

Kayley:

Actually, I want you to talk about wholeness, because I remember in the small group you mentioned, um, just the image of God and what happens when male and female come together.

Sophie:

Mm-hmm. Well, both men and women are made it, it says in the Bible that it's were made in the image of God. Right. So masculine and feminine nature are both wrapped up in the personality of God.

Kayley:

Right.

Sophie:

And in fact, in Genesis, I, I could look it up, but it might take me a second, but there's a, there's a scripture that said he created man, he created the them mm. Male and female. He created them.

Kayley:

Okay.

Sophie:

So in the beginning, he created Adam as I. The masculine and feminine together in one human, one body. Then he was like, it's actually not good for man to be all wrapped up in one alone. So let me separate half of him. And he took Adam from Eve, it says,

Kayley:

or Eve From Adam.

Sophie:

Sorry, eve From Adam. Yes. Okay. He took Eve from Adam. So the two natures were in one human before he separated them. So it's in marriage that we truly come together and fully represent the full nature of God.

Kayley:

You know, I feel like churches do a big disservice to people. Um, like I don't think I've ever actually heard a pastor talk on the image of God in that way. Mm-hmm. I mean, we all say like, oh, we're made in the image of God. We made it the, like we say it all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, when have we ever really spelled out? You know, I had to read a book for me to understand that the way I'm created as a woman was designed by God and I'm made in this image. Yeah. So therefore he has both male and female characteristics as mm-hmm. You know, it's just, it makes sense. It does. And I'm like, why did I have to learn this from a book like this? This makes me feel better about liking beautiful things. Yes. Because that's an attribute of women. Like, we like to be perceived as beautiful. It's important for us. Mm-hmm. And so, and God is a God of beauty. Yes. He loves beautiful things. Look at what he's created. Yeah. He created the most stunning things that we've ever seen. Mm-hmm. Or could ever see. Yep. And so it makes sense that I would like beautiful things.

Sophie:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Women love to. Make their space beautiful. Yeah. Make themselves beautiful. In fact,

Kayley:

be seen as beautiful.

Sophie:

Yeah. A lot of women struggle with that. Actually. That's another thing, another pitfall I was seeing with a lot of my friends in, in the dating world is like they women who don't put themselves together and don't put any effort, they don't even, they don't even really think that they're worthy of putting effort into Beau really, beautification wise. And, you know, there's some pretty wack beauty standards, so, totally. I'm not about that. No. But like, you know, Esther went through an entire year of beautification process before she married the king, and, which is nuts. It is. And, and also like, if you have been made valuable, truly, inherently valuable, just specifically because God created you and said, you are valuable to me, then you are worth putting, putting yourself together for you're worth. You are worth creating something beautiful for your person to look at.

Kayley:

I've actually been thinking a lot more about Esther lately, and I, I have low key said a few on a few occasions, like I'm in my Esther season, I'm just gonna like dress up.

Sophie:

Wait, what do you mean? Like, like the year of beautification season?

Kayley:

I'm getting beautified for my future husband. Well, like I wanna, I wanna like actually go out in public feeling put together because Yeah. When I'm not performing shows, um, I'm pretty much scrubbing it and there are times that I go to the grocery store looking like a straight up gremlin and I'm like, these are the times where I can be dropping the handkerchief in public.

Sophie:

Yeah.

Kayley:

And actually when we were talking about dropping the handkerchief in your small group. Um, I actively started working on it. I was like, you know what?

Sophie:

Oh my gosh. I love the story of you tell the story of, of you the guy at the airport. Oh my gosh, this is so cute. Because it doesn't have to be romantic. No. If you are an open person Yes. And you open doors, you never know it could lead to a business deal. A new job, a friend, a lifelong buddy. Yes. You never know.

Kayley:

And that's what I learned from this. I'm like, okay, I'm naturally very extroverted, but when I'm by myself, like I'm hunkered down, head down a little bit. Like I'm kind of a little scared, like a little lost sheep. Like who do I, how do I talk to people I forgot, you know, like whatever it is. And so I work so good with a wing man. Like I am literally the queen of the court when I have a wingman. But when I'm by myself, I'm literally the popper waiting outside. But, um, that's funny. Anyway, I was by myself at the airport as I usually am when you fly out and. I was thinking about what you said, Sophie drop the handkerchief. And so I saw an old man that was sitting next to me and I saw my opportunity and I seized it and I, and I said, excuse me. Um, you look super trustworthy. And he looked at me. He went from like stone cold, like stern faced. He turned his face to me and he had the biggest smile on his face. And when I called him trustworthy, even though I didn't know him from Adam. Yeah. And the guy sitting behind me also piped up and turned around like, what's just about to happen? And this man is probably in his sixties or something, and I said, you look so trustworthy. Would you mind just watching my things for a moment while I go to the coffee shop?

Sophie:

Oh my gosh.

Kayley:

And he was like, sure. Absolutely. And I was like,

Sophie:

you made that guy's day.

Kayley:

I mean, it made my day. I was like, wow, this really works. I'm like, okay. Because, you know, if men like to protect, they like to provide, like, I made sure I didn't leave anything too valuable, even though he did have access to my guitar. Um, we made jokes about him stealing my guitar. I love it. But it was fine. And, and I just, I learned a lot in that moment. I was like, this opened up a conversation with strangers. Yeah. And sometimes those are the best, like in a digital world where we're constantly staring at our screens. Mm-hmm. Taking a moment to just meet eye to eye. Face to face, yes. With an, with another human being.

Sophie:

And express appreciation. Yes. And just see them.

Kayley:

Yes.

Sophie:

And you know, that goes for men and women, like men, you know, they're, yeah. They, they wanna be seen as I'm capable of protecting. I'm strong, I'm a, I'm able. Yeah. Right. But, but I think all humans wanna be seen for what they're good at, what they, what they bring to the table. But this, yeah. I mean, I'm a married woman and I still do this. I still open doors.

Kayley:

Same,

Sophie:

emotional doors. Like, yeah. Like the other day I was at a, at a coffee shop and I saw this. This, um, this man who, he was sitting at a, a table at a restaurant and this family walked by with this little girl who had like a little book or something and the book fell and he like got outta the booth to pick it up and to go and bend down at the girl's eye level and give it to her. And they had like this little moment about this little book and I just walked up to him afterwards and I was like, Hey, I just want you to know, I saw that with the little girl and how you picked up her book, and I just wanted to tell you that really stood out to me. And, um, just watching that moment, I, I felt something and I just wanted to tell you that.

Kayley:

Man, I just, I know that is so good. And it's not, it doesn't have to be romantic. Yeah. It's like, what if I positioned myself daily to look for the heroes in the room

Sophie:

Yes.

Kayley:

And called them out for being heroic. Mm-hmm. Being like, wow, I'm so glad that there is still kindness and gentleness and Yes. Like really the spirit, the fruits of the spirit. Like, yes, I saw how kind you were. I saw how self controlled you were. Like that person was yelling at you and you just stood resolute. Like, I honor that because that's really hard. Yeah. I think that's, I think if we all just walked around ready to affirm people that were doing good. Mm-hmm. We would have way more friends. Yeah. We would have. Way more confidence. Yes. You'd be building confidence in others. Yes. It would just be a gift.

Sophie:

Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely agree. And, you know, that's, that's a great thing about, about being an open person. It doesn't necessarily express intent. Like if I open a door, one of the things I think women really struggle with is if I open the door, he better ding walk through it. Yeah. If he doesn't, so help him. And what we forget is that I, as as much of free choice as I have to open that door, he has free choice to either walk through it or not. So I've opened doors, emotional doors for many opportunities that have never happened. Mm. And I just let them go. Yeah. I'm like, you know, I'm gonna open for, for every a hundred doors that I open, 10 people may walk through them. That's okay. I'm not gonna stop. You know? Yeah. And, and also like I think Christian women specifically. I think I find this with like sexuality too, because everyone's afraid of sex. It's bad. Yeah. Sex is not bad. Okay. Sex with someone you're not married to has consequences. Mm-hmm. Whether or not you, whatever you believe about sexuality, you can't deny that it has consequences. Okay. Um, and I've been married twice. The first time I slept with him before we got married the second time I waited.

Kayley:

And what's the difference

Sophie:

two, VA, I mean, vastly different experiences.

Kayley:

Really?

Sophie:

Yes. Because the first relationship was built on giving into. What my body wants. It gets okay at the, and it, and it covered a lot of things. In my first marriage, I was addicted to food. I was addicted to television. I was, I had multiple affairs during my first marriage, like because my flesh ruled the roost. Wow. That whole relationship was built on whatever Sophie wants. Sophie gets. But the second time around, we said no when we wanted to say yes. And then our marriage now is built on like similar values. Similar direction. We're both growing in the same direction, and we can both actually say no to things that benefit our family a lot easier.

Kayley:

Where was your faith during your first marriage?

Sophie:

Um, I was a very legalistic Christian back then. Okay. So yeah. I've always known the Lord grew up in a Christian home, all that. But yeah, I didn't really own my relationship with him. I didn't really even know what it meant to have a relationship.

Kayley:

Sure.

Sophie:

For me at the time it was morality. Yeah. Is my God, basically.

Kayley:

Yes.

Sophie:

And so, and I was least moral. Yeah. So how do you, how did that make sense? Oh, it's a, it's constant back and forth between. I need to do better. And then like, and, and like shame and then like being a goody two shoes and shame and being a goody two shoes. It's like,

Kayley:

well, no wonder you were addicted to food.

Sophie:

Oh yeah, I was. I was addicted to every comfort except to like hard drugs. Well, because you alcohol, you name it,

Kayley:

you served your flesh and then you shamed yourself for serving your flesh. And that Yes, that's the cycle. Yep. Gosh, I feel like a lot of people are in that. I mean, I've been in that too,

Sophie:

for sure. And I think as a single person, I think particularly women are very, very protective of their sexuality as a single person, which, you know, again, you have to have your standard. Okay. And that's, I, I, I'm well aware that that standard might exist in different positions, different places for different people. Sure. My sister, she didn't even kiss her husband until their wedding, me and Christian were making out our first date. You know, like, but the thing is, is that expressing sexual desire or the fact that the sexual desire exists within you is not the same thing as expressing intent to act on it. So women in the church have this really terrible idea that they can't be sexual at all. They can't blur the lines. There can't be anything that's even remotely dirty or anything. Even a glance or, or the way you hold my hand or a kiss or whatever. Like you can kiss my cheek, but you can't kiss my neck or whatever, you know, whatever We, whatever we put up as kind of these sacred cows of sexual, of these sexual experiences as a dating person. So then you get married and you're expected to just flip it on. Let's say if you are waiting for marriage, all of a sudden everything that was dirty becomes clean. It doesn't work like that. No, it doesn't work with that mean,

Kayley:

that was actually somewhat my experience because I waited for marriage. Yep. And that. I mean, it, it was weird. I mean, there were so many things that were missing, I'll be honest. Like it ne we waited for marriage and then it never actually became a marriage. There were, you know, intimacy was an interesting dilemma, but, um, and it was very painful, hurtful dilemma. Yeah. But yeah, I, I do remember, like, for me, especially in the beginning phases of, you know, it's like when you wait, it's almost like you try and make sex dirty so that you don't want it, it's like you attribute it to something bad. Yes. Um, and then when I got married, it was like such a mental obstacle for me to redefine sex as good.

Sophie:

Wow. Yeah.

Kayley:

It was really challenging. And I mean, I was 23, 24 and, um, man, I had like a very difficult time. And, but yeah. And so

Sophie:

it's a hard switch to flip.

Kayley:

Oh my gosh. It so is, and that was just attributed to the fact that I was a legalist as well. Mm-hmm. I was very morally motivated. Um, simultaneously living in shame simultaneously, not really having a full relationship with God. Mm-hmm. Just knowing of him. Not knowing him.

Sophie:

Yeah.

Kayley:

And, um, and it spread throughout my whole marriage, but of course, like I wanted to be this submissive wife, so I just acquiesced to everything my husband wanted. Mm-hmm. Um, even though he, yeah, that's probably another story.

Sophie:

Different episode. Yeah. It's fine. It's fine. Wow. Yeah. I love the way that our, our pastors describe, you know, sexuality as, as a Christian, it's like we, it's, it's easy to be like, oh, it's, it's bad. It's dirty. Don't do it, don't do it. Don't do it. And then you're just focusing on what you miss out or what, what you're like saying no to. And like, don't, don't be tempted. Don't be tempted. But in the way that they've handled it with their children, I love it.'cause they have two grown children now. I think they're in their late teens, early twenties, and the way that they discussed sexuality with their kids was so great. They were like, we actually told our kids from a very early age, as soon as they were old enough to know what it is. That it is amazing. It is beautiful. It is sacred. It is wonderful. It's one of the most unbelievable experiences you will ever have. And because of that, that's why you have to safeguard it, to experience it with the right people, the right person, you know? Yeah. And I get, I get, I say people because that is true for some of our stories. Yeah. I've slept with more than, more than a few people. Right. So some, for some of us, that that is our story, even though I'm a Christian. Yeah. Okay. But. Where, you know, wherever your boundary is with that, that is why it is worth protecting. It is worth something because of its value. Mm. Because of its deep, great positive value. Like you, you know, no one, no one puts a blank sheet of white paper in the deepest bank safe that exists because it's not worth much. Yeah. But they'll put their diamonds and their gold bars and their really deeply valuable things in that deep safe, they'll protect it because not just anybody gets access.

Kayley:

Yeah. Okay. I have a question for you, and you can share this if you, you can share the answer or not however you feel comfortable, but like in regards to sex, like how has the meaning changed for you between your past partners and your current husband? Because in the past you operated more so out of your flesh and now currently you submit your flesh to Holy Spirit. So how has that changed the expression of sex for you?

Sophie:

Well, and I also submit my body to my husband. One, we submit one to another. Mm. So yeah, ultimately we both submit to the Lord, but we also submit to each other in marriage. So it's changed significantly in, in my life. I feel like I am. It's weird because, you know, I'm 39 now, and so hitting that, hitting that first little bit of perimenopause. And so I can tell my, my, my physical drive is starting to shift just a little bit, but I'm having more deeply meaningful sex than I've ever had in my life because of the fact that when it happens, it's for connection. It's not to like scratch a physical itch. And of course it. Accomplishes that as well. Right. But that's not my motivation, that's not my husband's motivation. Sure. My husband is the most wonderful, loving person, and you know, he's a man, so he's, he's gotta drive just like any, any guy would. But I'm actually a very, I'm a very sexual person too, so I, I've had a very high level of drive for most of my life. Okay. But when you take your spirit and your mind and you use that to put your flesh into submission, it's so rewarding. It's kind of like the, it's kind of like the budget. My husband recently put us on a budget because I have a bit of a spending problem and another area in which I was. Uh, leaning into my masculine.

Kayley:

Sure, sure.

Sophie:

And so now I was like, you know what? Whatever plan that I've had for our money is not working. I was like, I, I need help. Mm. I don't know what to do. That's good. And he goes, give me a day and I'll, I'll come up with a plan. Oh, that's so good. And he did. And so he put me on a budget. Me, he put us on a budget. And, um, and so I went to him recently and I was like, Hey, there's this thing that I wanna buy. And he asked me a few questions about it, and then he was like, okay, I'm gonna say no for now. And it's not like this. No, you're not allowed to, you know, it was this, Hey, we've both agreed upon the, the, the level of responsibility. And he said, when I say no, you're gonna have to listen if this is gonna work. And so I agreed to it. Okay. So when I came to him and I said, Hey, I really wanna buy this thing, he said, no, for now. I went, okay, that sucks. But you know what? My flesh doesn't rule the roost anyway.

Kayley:

Yeah.

Sophie:

Then. A couple of months later, he goes, Hey, guess what? I made some, how sexy is this? He goes, I made some room in the budget for that thing that you wanted. And because I had to say no for two months, it actually meant so much more to me to be able to buy that thing. Like used to. I would just buy crap on Amazon every week, every day there was packages coming. What's in 'em? I don't even know. Do I use them? Maybe not. Okay. And, and I didn't value those things. They, they went in a junk. Yeah, they went in a junk tour. Contend for them. I didn't have to wait. I didn't have to utilize any self-control for that, any strategy, any submission for that. And so now he, he made space in the budget for my thing and I bought it and I was like. I'm protecting this thing because I had to work a little bit harder for it. Like it meant a little more to me. So I, I've used sex kind of in that way too. It's like, yeah, when, when we use it as a, as a young, you know, single person or even as a married person, when I was having affairs, I was just frivolously, you know, pleasing my flesh, pleasing my flesh all the time, and it meant nothing, you know?

Kayley:

Ah, and, and it takes away the value. It actually turns the diamond into that sheet of paper.

Sophie:

It does, it devalues this amazing experience, and it is wonderful. Mm. It's not everything about a relationship. It's not the only thing that, that provides intimacy in a relationship, but it's wonderful when it's used, how it was designed. You know, any, any piece of equipment or technology that you, that you buy, if you don't use it according to the manual, it will not function the way, it will not give you the value or the benefit that you bought it for.

Kayley:

You know, I think that's, when we go back to like rules, a lot of people say like, ah, I don't gonna, I don't wanna be a Christian. There's just too many rules involved. Like, you can't have sex, you can drink. It's like, it's not fun. And um,

Sophie:

trust me, you can, you can be a Christian and have sex. I've done it. I've had a lot of sex with a lot of people. I wasn't married to.

Kayley:

So my whole thought about that is like, okay, for me, I, I don't really drink. I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty tightlipped with a lot of my life, but it's not out of fear, it's out of freedom. Yes. In a way of like, I, I love God so much. Mm-hmm. And any time I've obeyed him, my life has been fruitful. Mm-hmm. And I have been given more peace, more happiness, more joy. Yes. And I'm like, so in the obedience, like, we obey him.'cause we love him. I love God and I, I trust him. Yeah. Therefore I obey him. Mm-hmm. And in response, like, he just bestows goodness upon me. Yes. Yes. And, and so when I, when I hear people say like, ah, there's just too many rules. I can't do this, I can't do this. And I'm just like. Do you realize your rule, your rule less life just leads you right into slavery. You become a slave to your flesh, a slave to the the following resentment that you have for yourself for doing that which you didn't wanna do or was meaningless. Yes. You, yeah. You don't respect yourself anymore, and then you start to see other people not respect you. Mm-hmm. And you're telling me you'd rather have air quotes fun. Yeah. And, um, anyway, I'm just, it's obviously, you, you're, you're coming with this perspective of having both, which makes you such a qualified mouthpiece for telling people, like, actually you really want the keys to the kingdom. Mm-hmm. You really want the fantasy suite. Yeah. This is, this is the method, this is how I got it, and I know what depravity looks like. Mm-hmm. And I know what freedom looks like.

Sophie:

Yes. I've lived them both and you know, if, if, if, if you don't, if you think that God has a lot of rules for you, number one I say you don't, you don't trust God. And if you don't trust him, you haven't given him the position in your life to prove that he's trustworthy. Because no one can be proven trustworthy until you put a little, until you put your eggs in their basket.

Kayley:

And he, he gets that. He knows that we're frail and that we're like very doubtful. Yeah. And I mean, my journey with God didn't start with abundant trust. It started with like a little bit like I trusted with. Him with a little bit and he, and then he'd show up for me. I'm like, oh, that worked. Like, yep. Okay. Lemme trust you with more. Lemme trust now. I just trust him with everything. Yes. And where my fear is, I just, I give it over to him. Yeah. Like, I have to just die to it every day. I'm like, Nope.'cause you're a liar. Fear. Yes. And you're just gonna keep me from God's abundance, so I'm not gonna walk in, you gonna, in what God says.

Sophie:

Yeah. I love that you said abundance too, because again, going back to the rules thing, like if, if, if a billionaire, um, left you millions of dollars

Kayley:

mm-hmm.

Sophie:

And sent you instructions by way of an attorney for how to access this money, you're gonna go to this bank in Switzerland, you're gonna walk in, you're gonna talk to this man, you're gonna enter in this password. You're gonna go down an elevator into the safety deposit box where I've left you this money. Imagine you take that gift and you go, uh, there's so many rules. It's not rules.

Kayley:

Okay. Analogy, queen.

Sophie:

It's not, I've never given that analogy before. That's so weird.

Kayley:

But it's so good. You're so good at analog analogies though. I love it.

Sophie:

But he's actually got the world for you. Yes. Like he's got the world on a platter

Kayley:

and you're like, it's, it's too hard. I don't want, yeah.

Sophie:

Oh, but you're restricting me. Actually, I wanna give you everything like,

Kayley:

like his rules were meant to protect us. Yes. He, he's, he designed sex for marriage to protect us. Yep. He didn't want us to be walking around with broken hearts.

Sophie:

Yes. Same for street signs, street signs, uh, street lights. Yes. There's so many rules. Okay. If you don't follow them, you're gonna get an accident. This is for your protection.

Kayley:

That's for your protection. So, um, I, I wanna leave us with like, I, I thought about this dream recently that I think I should share before we kind of close up. Ooh. And I let you have a final word. But, um, I had this dream and obviously we just take dreams with a, a grain of salt, but I was in my childhood home and in my childhood bedroom and there was trash everywhere. And it wasn't even my trash, it was just a bunch of stuff that didn't belong that was out of place. Meanwhile. Jason Mraz was sitting on my bed.

Sophie:

That's a throwback.

Kayley:

Literally a throwback. I don't know why God used this person to be in my dream, but he did. And Jason Mraz, although I know he is gay in real life, apparently.

Sophie:

Is he?

Kayley:

Apparently I heard that recently. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know if he's out. I don't. You know what, if we can omit this from the record, great. If not, doesn't matter. Let's get back to the dream. So Jason Mraz is sitting on my bed and in my dream he has become a born again Christian. And he's interested in me.

Sophie:

Huh?

Kayley:

And I, all I can do is clean my room. I just want, I am like so embarrassed, so ashamed by all of the trash that's somewhat, not even mine, that is unrecognizable. Wow. All I can do is just pick up, clean up. Meanwhile, he's sitting on the bed just looking at me so gently and caring and regarding, and he's just patient. He's just letting me do it. Mm. But meanwhile, he wants me to just spend time with him. Wow. And I really think God was just trying to say to me like. You're in this phase of your singleness where you think that in order to have a partner, to have a relationship, you've gotta clean up every part of your life. And I'm telling you, you don't have to. Yep. And I'm gonna bring someone to you that's gonna walk with you and clean it up with you.

Sophie:

Yes.

Kayley:

And that's what I designed. Wow. You guys are gonna be helpers to each other. And so when you have someone sitting on your bed, theoretically, um, just waiting patiently to spend time with you and to get to know you, like lean into that and trust that the mess will get resolved.

Sophie:

Wow. That's such a beautiful picture of intimacy. Yeah.'cause ultimately you guys are building a life together. If you're with someone Yeah. You don't want your life totally, fully built and then you have to try to integrate it into someone else who has a totally fully built life.

Kayley:

No, and I think I was drifting into that, like thinking, oh, I guess I don't, I guess God hasn't brought me my spouse yet because I'm a mess and I just need to fix, fix, fix, fix, fix, fix, fix. And God's like. You got out of the yoke. Yeah, you got out of the yoke. I will give you things to work on because your waiting season is dynamic. It's not static. There's actually you, this is a post. Yes. And when a a, a soldier is at a post, it's active duty.

Sophie:

Wow.

Kayley:

And so while you're waiting, you're not still, I'm actually calling you to work. But let me give you the task. Don't just make up all the tasks thinking that you're riddled with worms. Yes. And problems.

Sophie:

That's great.

Kayley:

You need to, why don't you just let me inform what you're supposed to work on. Stay yoked to me because this is gonna be a beautiful season.

Sophie:

Yeah. Wow. That's beautiful, Kayley.

Kayley:

Well, and hopefully that helps any single listener listening. Yes. Whether you're male or female. Yes. And with that, we're running out of time, but can you just tell everybody where they can find you and if you could leave both men and women with an encouraging word.

Sophie:

Yeah. Ooh. So you can find me. I mean, I dunno if you wanna find me on Instagram, 'cause it has nothing to do with what we're talking about today. All you'll see there is singing content. Yeah. And coaching. But, um, at Sophie.jolls is where you can find me on Instagram. And, um, an encouraging word for, for men, I would say is. I know it's weird out there. Like I, I guess specifically for men who are looking for a partner Mm. And may and maybe even men who have a partner. It's weird out there because the, the lines of men and women have been blurred to the point where now men are afraid to step up because they're like, so and so's gonna say that. I've like, tried to take advantage of it. Inappropriate. Yeah. Be inappropriate or take advantage of them or something. But I would say. We still need your strength. We still need your courage. We still need for you to walk through those doors. Anytime you notice that one is being opened to you, yeah. Don't force yourself through. Obviously that's inappropriate, but we need the, the world needs the strength and the protection and the provision that you have been uniquely designed to give to the world. Yeah, you need it so good. Don't, don't, don't hide that. Mm. Um, and then for women, I think my encouragement, whether you're looking for a mate or you have one, or just no matter where you are in life, I would say embrace the softer parts of you. Mm. Embrace that be soft because how, how can you find someone who can help you and guide you and protect you, and lift you up and encourage you and, and, and provide for you if. You haven't created any space for that to be a value to you. Mm, that's good. So you know, obviously if you're single, you have to protect yourself, right? You have to have a job. You have to pay your own bills. Obviously be responsible, but embrace the softer side when you're with people, when you're with men, specifically, whether or not you have romantic interest in them. Even that guy at the airport, like you made his ever loving week. I bet. So.

Kayley:

Well, that is all people. Sophie, thank you so much.

Sophie:

Thanks for having me.

Kayley:

I'm so glad that you're here and that you said yes. And my little Bible Bish listeners out there, if you loved this episode, go on bible Bish.com. Give me a testimony of what struck you, what hit you, what you think is bringing you breakthrough. I wanna hear about it. I wanna celebrate it and make sure you subscribe to the channel, follow along. And there's just gonna be more great content coming your way. tootaloo.