Bible Bish

When Christians Break Your Heart | Guest: Renn Anderson

• Kayley Bishop • Season 1 • Episode 2

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đź’” What do you do when the people who are supposed to love you most in faith let you down?

In this raw Bible Bish conversation, Renn Anderson and I open up about Christian heartbreak: Dating someone in the church who walked away, a father figure who abandoned him in his darkest moment, and the pain that made Renn run to people outside the faith to find comfort… only to discover the pain of being unequally yoked.

We unpack what “equally yoked” really means, how fear can sabotage your destiny, and why the love you chase isn’t always the love that will sustain you. 

Thanks for tuning in to Bible Bish!

Come for the tea, stay for the truth -you just might leave changed. 🕊️

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In the name of love, this is your Bible Bish reporting for duty. ♡

Renn:

I was so enamored with this person that I was like, I, I wrestled with my convictions. I wrestled with this idea of being equally yoked.

Kayley:

So the wisest person to have ever lived strayed because he gave his heart away to someone who , was not in the faith. Welcome everybody to Bible Bish. I am your host, Kayley Bishop. We want you to come for the tea, stay for the truth and hopefully leave a little changed. That's my prayer at least. That's right. That's, that's it. I'm here with my good pal friend, Renn Anderson. He plays bass, he writes songs, he leads worship. He is a lot of, you're like a smorgasbord.

Renn:

I am a charcuterie selection.

Kayley:

You but like fine cheese because you are a food snob. I know this about you. No, like

Renn:

the Walmart one. The Walmart one. I'm cheap. You guys can probably afford me. If you need anything. Hit me up.

Kayley:

I cannot actually. It was all Renn's fault. There was one time I was playing a show. In Vail, Colorado. And if you don't know anything about Vail, it's, you know, it's pretty bougie out there. And I was there, and of course Renn has frequent frequented Vail 'cause he's just that kind of person. He's Walmart, but he's also the Ritz. And he's like, Kayley, you have to go to the Four Seasons and get the $20 hot chocolate.

Renn:

Oh, that's what, that's right. I was wondering where the story was going. I do remember this y'all.

Kayley:

I did. I went to the Four Seasons in Vail, Colorado by myself, and I ordered a $20 hot chocolate and it was worth every cent.

Renn:

Hey.

Kayley:

It was so amazing.

Renn:

They, they create like a confectionary web of dark chocolate that it looks like a little, like ornate

Kayley:

Christmas snowflake. Yeah, it was like a

Renn:

snowflake thing. And then they put a giant marshmallow on top, A homemade marshmallow. It's delicious. So good. And then they so good, they take molten chocolate and they drizzle it over the marshmallow that is sitting atop. The confectionary snowflake and it gradually melts the dark chocolate, the marshmallow falls in. It's this whole spectacle. It

Kayley:

is.

Renn:

And not only that, it tastes amazing.

Kayley:

It was really good. Leave it to Renn. He is Walmart, but he is also the Ritz. I

Renn:

spend money like the Ritz, but I earn money like Walmart.

Kayley:

So again,

Renn:

I'm cheap. If you guys want make

Kayley:

that make sense, the Lord provides

Renn:

Amen. Amen. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kayley:

Um, okay, so everybody, I wanted to invite Renn on here, um, because the Lord told me to. It was so funny. Like I was, I've been thinking about the guests that I was gonna have on the show and I had a couple in mind and Ren was one of them. But you know, before I made the invite, I wanted to make sure that it was right. And I went to church on Sunday. We go to the same church and I did not wanna go to church this past Sunday. I don't. I just was, I don't know. Sometimes we have those moments where we just don't wanna get up and I went and. Went anyway. And lo and behold, Ren is sitting across the aisle from me and I didn't even realize it. And he leans over. He is like, Kayley, how's the podcast going? And I looked at him, I was like. You wanna come on and the rest is history. And I

Renn:

said, I, I, I think I was nervous. I think I was like, maybe. And then you, and then I was like, maybe, I don't know. And here I am and I don't know which camera to look at. I think there are three. Is that correct? Yeah,

Kayley:

it's great. You can just look at me if you want. There's a

Renn:

plant in the corner that seems to be drawing my attention. Yeah,

Kayley:

that's good. It's got a glow. I'm quite f

Renn:

fond of it.

Kayley:

Frond of it. That's great. That's so funny. It's a palm tree. That's so good. It's palm. So Renn, um, I know you're the comic of the hour, but also I wanna talk about some hard things with you. Oh,

Renn:

I wanna make

Kayley:

you blush a little bit. Put

Renn:

me on the spot.

Kayley:

And, because I feel like the only thing that I felt like God was nudging me to ask you about was your experience in unequally yoked relationships.

Renn:

Ooh. I have a lot of experience. Should I be proud of this?

Kayley:

Okay. Wait, hold on. Before we get started, I, we need to talk about what a yoke is. Yeah. I, I had a conversation with a friend last night who has always heard the term like equally yoked, and she literally thought it was about eggs. And so we, we have to clarify for the people that

Renn:

that's a genetic mutation.

Kayley:

We have to clarify because there are two different yokes. First of all, an egg yolk is YOLK. The yoke that the Bible is talking about is YOKE. The yoke that the Bible is talking about is actually a piece of wood that acts like a beam or a connection device that sits on the backs of two oxen and it yokes them together so that then when they're attached to the cart or whatever they're carrying, they work in stride together. And the reason why the Bible says you wanna be equally yoked is because if you're unequally yoked, whereby you have a strong ox and a weak ox, the strong ox will lessen itself to match the weak ox, or it will end up carrying the cart in circles and you make no progress. So that's why the Bible says, be equally yoked. And oftentimes we don't do that anyway, and we find ourselves. Spinning in circles in our relationship. So cue Renn's testimony in

Renn:

equally. Oh man, where should I start? Uh, yeah, back, I mean, back to the verse even about, you know, being equally yoked, uh, it's specifically, you know, you can find a lot of farming metaphors mm-hmm. In the Bible. It was a very, uh, agricultural, uh, agri. It was a culture of agri. Mm-hmm. Agrarian culture, I think is what I should say. Words are hard. Um, I think it's agrarian culture. It they, you know, they had to gather, uh, wheat, a lot of metaphors about wheat and Oh yeah. Tears. And, um, about seed sewn. You'll find that all throughout Jesus's teachings, Paul's WR letters. And, um, it was a, a great way for them to understand the dangers of being fit with someone who isn't pulling the same weight as you, right? Yeah. And that's what you basically said that, in other words, um, specifically I think it refers to. Uh, being yoked to a partner that is either a believer or a non-believer.

Kayley:

Correct? Yes.

Renn:

Um, and that is obviously it seems to be the intent of the author to start there. Mm-hmm. And to understand it is that, uh, but what I've also learned is that even in the context of two Christians being in relationship with one another, um, there are certain metaphors to play out in your mind as you understand, like, okay, are we going to be walking in the same direction? Are we gonna be actually building a future together? Am I willing to slow down in my bullheadedness? Yeah. If somebody needs to take a break and we need to take a slower pace, or is someone else willing to do that for me and my weakness?

Kayley (2):

Yep.

Renn:

Um, am I also willing, when I see a need in my heart that is not fully developed and am immaturity in me, am I willing to grow and to train myself to take up a long, uh. A stronger weight so that I even out the synthesis of the effort that someone else is putting in.

Kayley:

Sure.

Renn:

like you said, that that, you know, going around in circles, it can happen in more ways than just a spiritual context. Mm-hmm. So here we go. Uh, I guess I should give everyone a background, 36 years old, and I am so single, uh, that, you know, the joke is like, coaches don't play. You know, like, I have all this advice. Like, why do you wanna listen to a coaches don't play? What's funny is like, you know, okay, like, I think we could probably have a good conversation about this. I don't know that I can offer any expertise because here I am like, you know,

Kayley:

well, you're single for a reason. Right. I mean, you could be, you could be staying in an unequally yoked relationship. I mean, you could have married somebody that you weren't equally yoked with. And,

Renn:

and I think I got close to that a couple of times, and maybe that's where the stories begin and that's where we go. Yeah. Um, you know, I remember being at a church service at Legacy not too long ago talking about how the life that someone lives on a Sunday morning at church, if this is a, a Bible, uh, topic. You know, a lot of times people put on like a false self when they walk into the four walls of the church.

Kayley:

Oh, 100%.

Renn:

And they're like, you know, wearing their best clothes and even like, you know, maybe not as much anymore. People will be casual, but, um, there is this context of like, I have to be my best self. Yeah. Emotionally.

Kayley:

Yeah.

Renn:

I have to maybe, um, present a facade mm-hmm. That will be accepted within this context of people who are striving for. Biblical pre, uh, principles, like holiness, like yeah. Following the Lord. Like lordship of Jesus means, you know, saying no to some things and Yeah. And trying to be set apart and consecrated. So on Sunday morning they're very consecrated, but then when you get to know someone, you have to get to know them at their best and their worst. Yeah. And you also bring your best and your worst into any relationship you're in. Yeah. And someone gets to see that, you know, and gets to experience it firsthand. So for me, I think a lot of my, uh, a lot of the reason I'm still single at 36 is because the first person, there's like a joke about like the first time a guy gets his heart broken and then he's just like a shell the rest of his life and he just breaks a bunch of women's hearts the rest of his life. Is this you? Is this you? Uh, I don't know. I don't know, but I definitely think, like, you know, I, I, I moved out to a ministry school in California. I met this girl and she was so fun to me and. Um, I really thought she was gonna be the one for me. And I, uh, you know, worked my butt off. I took so many jobs. I saved up money. I got the ring. I flew over there to like talk to her dad and ask her, ask him, you know, for permission. The good Southern way. I was raised North Carolina. That's what you do down there. And then while I book a trip to meet her dad, she finds out because my dad or her dad tells her somehow or something, she finds out that I'm there to like talk to her dad and she freaks out. Oh. And she, she makes me promise not to meet her dad. And I'm like, but I got, but I like

Kayley:

basically saying, I don't wanna marry you. in one fell swoop.

Renn:

Well, yeah. I mean, it was like, it was like, a slow dissolve of realizing at this point that I was like way more into her than she was into me. And she was like trying to keep me from the permanent spot. And more into the like, casual spot. And I'm like, I don't do that very well. No, I really wanted to, you know, of

Kayley:

course not

Renn:

to go full into the heels of marriage as a young man, I was 22, 23 and, uh, all my siblings would place bets when we were teenagers and they all bet that I would be the first one to get married. And it was like just so funny that I finally think I found someone in the context of a church healthy environment. I think I have like the blessing of the community and that this is a good person. And then long story short, everything dissolves very quickly and very like rashly. I, I can't give the right context to feed her side of the story, but I could say that in her fear, it ended very abruptly. She blocked me in every way, couldn't communicate with her. And uh, I was trying to like, you know, you know, you know what it's like everyone's been there. They're like. Maybe a text will work, maybe an email will work. Maybe an email to her boss and asking the boss to forward it to her will work. Oh man. I'm sure I was so exhausting.

Kayley:

Oh, you poor thing.

Renn:

You poor things. Oh, man. Ugh. You know what it's like, uh, when you're, when you're just like in love. I was so in love with so young. I was so immature and so not good at dating, and I made a lot of mistakes. And, uh, and, and, you know, if it didn't work out, it may have very well been my fault in some ways, but it was very traumatizing to me. And all of a sudden I was like, man, you know, I, I waited all this time to date someone because I wanted to find someone who was aligned with me spiritually. And then that ended up being really terrible because even though we were in the same context and churches together and all this stuff, it turned out that the way I was treated was pretty, pretty bad. Well, she was young

Kayley:

too. I mean, she was young as well. And her fear, I mean, there is never fruit that comes from fear.

Renn:

Amen.

Kayley:

Ever

Renn:

rotten fruit. Stinking fruit. It's

Kayley:

bad. It's like we end up, it makes the anointed jackfruit lie. It makes, oh, wow. You know, it makes the people that have like a, a God given gift. It makes them useless. Come on. Like that fear man. And so we have to squash that. But that's what, and when you're young and immature, you walk in fear. Fear dictates a lot of what you do until you grow up and mature in faith and realize that faith is actually the currency of heaven.

Renn:

Come on. This is, this is why I am here. I'm here to listen to you.

Kayley:

She Okay, Renn, keep going. Sorry.

Renn:

Hallelujah. Faith is the currency of heaven. Is that what you said?

Kayley:

Faith is the currency of heaven.

Renn:

Come on, cash. That check,

Kayley:

cash it. Mm. Yeah.

Renn:

Take it to the bank. Uh, well that is probably like my, that's probably the inception point, my villain origin story, if you will, where all of a sudden I just decided. I was so hurt by that experience that I was never gonna date anyone in the church again.

Kayley:

Wow.

Renn:

And so I moved to Nashville. I actually kind of, it, it, it was more dramatic than I, than the story I told. But I, I, I ran away from my hometown in North Carolina. I was heading west to California, but I stopped in Nashville, played a game of Russian roulette with God said, if I get this job that I apply for, I'll stay. Got the job. Ended up staying wasn't my plan. But here I am in Nashville these years later, changed my name, like to my middle name, which is Renn. Um, wait, what's your first name? Jonathan.

Kayley:

Is that why I call you Rennothan?

Renn:

Probably.

Kayley:

I naturally just call you Rennothan

Renn:

because you're a prophetic.

Kayley:

That's ridiculous. I didn't realize this. Jonathan is your first name. It's better

Renn:

than Reynold. McDon. Which is Reynold. Oh wait. McDonald McDonal. That's what it is. Reynold McDonal. Ren Dixie was a big one. I got, when I first moved here,

Kayley:

Ren Dixie Ren. Dixie Dixie was a big

Renn:

one. So I, I started going by my middle name. That, that is my God-given my dad, given middle name.

Kayley (2):

I love it.

Renn:

And it was honestly probably exactly what I needed because I was kinda in, you know, I, I was doing some things, but I wasn't really doing music. Mm-hmm. Which is probably my deepest, like calling.

Kayley:

Yeah,

Renn:

So it w it caused my life to burn down and that's not good. But it also, with nothing else to lean back on, I was finally willing to give music a try. Mm. So moved to Nashville, um, again, was thinking a LA maybe, but ended up in Nashville, started writing songs, started playing guitar and blah, blah, blah, blah. And here we are all these years later, I'm now. A, an interim bass player for Kayley Bishop.

Kayley:

Yeah, he's, he is played bass a couple times for me and it was, it was, it was nice. It was really good.

Renn:

Thanks. Um, I guess anyway, uh, I mean that's like, that's definitely why I'm here. But when I got here, I had walls up on every side of my heart against girls in the church and I was like, alright, I'm not gonna do that again. And it was just like me staying away from the electrical outlet in the wall that had burned me one time. Every now and then, you gotta get power to something or that thing's not gonna work like, right.

Kayley:

That's true. You know,

Renn:

some, like love is important in what it is designed to accomplish in your life, but when it goes wrong. You can't avoid love and expect to have a full life. You have to learn how to use it well. And

Kayley:

yeah,

Renn:

so I went on a circuitous route, many years of dating girls that were not in the church. And that was a frustrating thing 'cause I actually really got to know some girls that were treating me very well. And emotionally they were very healthy. And then I knew that even though they were good to me, they were not right for me because we couldn't build a life together. Uh, and if I may be vulnerable enough, I, I did date someone, um, that basically really wanted like a Jewish family. Um, and she was very good to me, very kind. And she was very, like, she was very much a good person that I love being around, that I love being with so much that I even began to like, maybe I should be open to like. Having little Jewish babies and like doing, you know, like they are the chosen people. You know, like I, I was, I was so enamored with this person that I was like, I, I wrestled with my convictions. I wrestled with this idea of being equally yoked.'cause I was like, wow. In so many areas of our lives, we are equally yoked. Yeah. Not according to the author's intent of that scripture.

Kayley:

Yeah.

Renn:

But, but in my like metaphorical playing out of the idea of like building a life together and blah, blah, blah, blah, this is like, this is like a very liberal interpretation mm-hmm. Of, of that scripture. Um, so I, I understand it has to take second priority to what Paul was really meaning. But anyway, I, uh, it was a really confusing time for me because I obviously was. In some ways responding to fear. The fear of like finding someones gonna hurt me within the church. Mm-hmm. And specifically that some and, and obviously being hurt. Um, and those fears, you know, were always causing me to cycle through, like, just triggers and, and being stupid and irresponsible

Kayley:

So how did it end? Because at this point, like, yeah, your heart's involved. Maybe your, maybe you know their family. Like

Renn:

Yeah, I met the family. It just gets intertwined and, uh, I I did my best to end it well, which was definitely terrible. It was a mess. I got flowers. I went to the grocery store. I knew you got

Kayley:

flowers for the breakup.

Renn:

I got flowers and I drove to her house and I stood on her back door and immediately she saw the flowers and she started crying.'cause she thought that I had like cheated on her and was trying to apologize for cheating on her. And I, and I was like. No, that's not, it's the opposite of what's going on. Like, like, but it was like I had to spend so much time trying to get past that, that when I finally calmed her down, like, no, you don't have to worry about me cheating on you. I finally got her like, calm. But I was like, but I am breaking up with you. Like when I think about it now, I'm like, oh my gosh, you idiot. The only thing dumber I've ever heard is apparently my dad broke up with a girl one time, and he did it by giving her a puppy. Who does that's, I'm like, dad, like I might be the dumbest man on earth. You're, you're your son. However, I learned it from the best. Thank you.

Kayley:

Oh my goodness.

Renn:

Oh, man. You can't

Kayley:

really make that up.

Renn:

Isn't that crazy? Here's a reminder of me every day for the next eight to 10 years of your life.

Kayley:

Oh, when Renn breaks up with you, he will either present you with a puppy or flowers, just,

Renn:

I thought flowers was a little bit better than a puppy.

Kayley:

Oh my goodness. And, uh,

Renn:

anyway, I'm, I'm, I, I guess I can look back and nervously laugh about some things, but I definitely had to own up for some really, like the whole, the whole process. It was so messy and I really didn't do well by that person because I was just so confused by the situation, by my convictions that would, that I could kind of alleviate for a while in order to assuage my fear. Yeah. Until you realize, um, I remember this one sermon. Where it was, the whole thing was in Spanish and I was like, I was getting hired to play guitar at a Spanish church. And I'm like there like on the front row, like doing the thing. The whole thing is like, you gotta be a part of the sermon, but I'm like, I don't know why I'm here. This guy's like speaking a language I don't understand. And then in perfect English and the middle of the sermon, he goes, sometimes our strongest desires are not our deepest desires and perfect. Oh,

Kayley:

so good

Renn:

English. It changed my life One sentence..

Kayley:

Do you wait, do you think God just gave you supernatural hearing?

Renn:

No.

Kayley:

No. He really was speaking in English,

Renn:

uh, because he had it written in English as well.

Kayley:

Okay. It was like

Renn:

so crazy. He is like literally he had a presentation board.

Kayley:

Okay. Yeah.

Renn:

No miracle there.

Kayley:

That's nuts. Say that, say that again.

Renn:

Um, I might have added to sometimes our strongest desires are not our deepest desires.

Kayley:

Oh my goodness. That's so good because I mean, so many times, like people chase something down, whether it's a career or any, or a per person, just to prove a point. And meanwhile, God's like, you're working so hard to prove a point that I never asked you to prove.

Renn:

Mm-hmm.

Kayley:

And it's so not yoked to what God wants for us.

Renn:

Yoked,

Kayley:

man, that's so good. So, okay. So that kind of set you free a little bit.

Renn:

Yeah. I mean that was like, that was what I had to learn the hard way and, and it was, it, I think it kind of highlighted the point that I had strong desire for this person. Yeah. But my deepest desire, it wasn't a deep desire, was to build a life with someone. Was this before you broke

Kayley:

up?

Renn:

What, what was what before

Kayley:

that you heard this message or I think was after. Was after. Okay. It

Renn:

was after.

Kayley:

Wow.

Renn:

And it was a, it was a calibrating point to realize that like, you know, I can, when I have strong desires, and this is, this is com, you know, applicable to areas of sin or areas of, uh, relational intimacy in whatever way. Like sometimes I can have a strong desire in the context of what I want for myself or what I want for someone else. But then when I take a step back, I realize that that is not in line with my deepest desire. So I then, uh, have the responsibility and maturity to choose my deepest desires and maybe abstain from something that is a strong desire, um, for the sake of building a life. Like for the sake of yeah. What it means for my tomorrow, what it means for my,

Kayley:

yeah.

Renn:

10 years from now, what it means for my 20 years from now. You can apply that to your job. You can apply that to your marriage.

Kayley:

Yeah. I mean, it doesn't have to be a romantic lens. I mean, there are, there have been so many times in my life where I operated out of guilt. It was not a reflection of my deepest desire, whether it was working with someone, collaborating with someone, even just going to coffee with someone. I'm like, I don't wanna go to coffee with this person. Why am I going? Just 'cause I'm afraid to tell them no and hurt their feelings. Is that why you let me play bass for you? No, actually, like that was right on time, I wanted you there. I'm like, 'cause not every bass player in town knows the Lord. I mean, we'll just put it that way. And I loved that you had Holy Spirit. And I was like, Ooh, if he's there, I'm gonna have another Holy Spirit keeper up on stage with me.

Renn:

I speak in tongues, y'all, and, and by speaking tongues I just make random noises sometimes

Kayley:

a lot of people do. And it's, it's kind of sad because some of them do it with like, you know, conviction, trying to be like, I don't know, topic

Renn:

the other day I said, said, so topic naughty by accident

Kayley:

topic you did.

Renn:

My brother was in town. And I just was like, oh, that meal was amazing. I, a lot of times I was speaking tongues if like tongues. It's just me making sounds

Kayley:

like just uttering.

Renn:

I just utter.'cause I'm like, I'm so excited about something. I just make random noises. And it's just like, it adds to the experience. And whatever. I said, my brother looks at me, he's like, dude, you can't say that. What,

Kayley:

do you remember what it was?

Renn:

I, I, I, I think I do, but I don't wanna repeat it, but repeat. You probably not say it. I don't wanna repeat it, but it was something in Spanish. I don't remember what it meant.

Kayley:

Oh, stop. Really? To

Renn:

the pure, all things are pure. I forgot that part, but apparently I said something very, uh, offensive in Spanish.

Kayley:

Wow, interesting. And I

Renn:

had no idea. see, , He, I think he thought it was like such a good meal. I was like cussing about how good the meal was. Anyway, red Pony, downtown Franklin my favorite restaurant in downtown. It's amazing.

Kayley:

So I wanna go back a little bit what we were talking about when you were dating the Jewish girl.

Renn:

Oh.

Kayley:

Because you ended it, which I think was really good. But as you were talking, it reminded me of, of Solomon. We know Solomon, you know Solom. He was Jewish. Jewish. He technically was Jewish.

Renn:

Yeah, he was also Jewish.

Kayley:

So King Solomon, for those of y'all listening and don't know the history of King Solomon. King Solomon was the most, I think, wealthy king to ever live. He was one of the most renowned and definitely the wisest king who ever lived. He follows David in Lineage. And when he first took the throne, he asked the Lord or the Lord asked him, what do you want? And King Solomon said, will you make me wise? And that was the best thing he could have asked for because in turn it made him super wealthy. I mean, they had so much land. The Queen of, Sheba would come just to sit at his feet and listen to him talk. He was renowned. It was incredible. But what it shows me, because Solomon did have a demise at the very end of his life, God said, the kingdom will be took, taken from you. After you pass away because your heart has strayed. So the wisest person to have ever lived strayed because he gave his heart away to someone who doesn't, was not in the faith. And that just says so much to me.'cause I'm like, we need to pay more attention to who we love and who we're aligned with because that will directly affect our destiny, our authority, our anointing, all of that. And so anyway, it just reminded me of that because he had many wives, but he started building altars to the wives, gods in, in Israel. And it's like, what are you doing dude? Yeah. The wisest man of all time. What are you doing? Anyway, I just had to insert that in there 'cause you made me think of that.

Renn:

Yeah. It is interesting. I mean the power of love to derail a man and and or a woman or whatever. Yeah. The power of relationships. Yeah. To distract from a destiny is so severe. You see it taking place. Yep. You also see specific warnings against it in the New Testament, which is a whole, is a very, uh, I would say that the New Testament is much freer in the sense that it's not strict adherence to Jewish principles. Right, right. Of course. Yeah. So, so it's like, okay, these things were necessities in an old covenant life, but they're no longer necessities in a new one. We can eat certain things we don't like, need to be circumcised or what, you know, that's an uncomfortable thing for a man to say on air, but I, uh, you know, it's fine. The traditional and what it was, what set Israel apart essentially Exactly. Those laws. It was a symbol Yeah. Of a covenant. And

Kayley:

to establish a people to establish God's people. And then when Jesus came, the Gentiles were then engrafted into the legacy. They, now we, 'cause I'm not Jewish. You're not Jewish. We now get to receive the inheritance. Right. And it's not because we adhere to Jewish law anything, but you do have to have a relationship with God.

Renn:

Yeah. And it's even more like prophetically inclined to realize that Jesus has done everything responsible Yeah. For our place in covenant with God. Yeah. If we, if we receive him and what he's done, which is important to mention 'cause that's the gospel. Yes. Um, but, but you know, like even in the context of like a much freer covenant, I should say. Mm-hmm. Or where there there are less rules and regulations because those weren't able to produce righteousness or the desire for good in our hearts. It's still something worth mentioning. Yeah. Like, oh, okay, we need to, we need to go back to this one. Mm-hmm. Like, um, and I, I think. In my life, if, if I can be just humble enough to say I've recognized, I just need to be careful on both fronts. I need to make sure I'm spiritually equally yoked. That has to be, uh, that has to be part of the life that I'm building. Yeah. With someone that is gonna be my everyday ride or die, I'm gonna like, I mean, so much of my life is motivated by trying to please the Lord. Mm-hmm. Like someone has to be able to understand that and meet me there. And at the same time, there's like an emotional responsibility. I have to treat someone well, to take, like, take the burden, share the burden, slow down whenever someone needs rest to pony up whenever someone feels like I'm neglecting my responsibilities. Um, and, and I guess I don't really know how many ways I apply that. Metaphor to my life. But I do now go into the dating scene after so many wrong situations and painful experiences where things didn't work out. And even though I ended this thing with this girl that I mentioned who was Jewish, like all of a sudden I felt like the person who hurt me because I realized if I had been more careful with that person's heart, I could have spared them a lot of pain when I ended the relationship.

Kayley:

Well, it's almost like hurt people. Hurt people.

Renn:

A hundred percent

Kayley:

hurt. People can hurt themselves as a result of being hurt.

Renn:

Yeah.

Kayley:

And I mean, and that's why, but then on the adverse, it's like healed people, heal people come on. And so now you don't have to live with that. But I have a question for you because I wonder if you've, okay. Have you broken the agreement that you made where you said you won't date anybody in the church? Like years ago when you said, I'm never gonna, oh, absolutely. Okay, good.

Renn:

Yeah, I And I, um. Not even a lot, but that's now like a, that's a must, you know, actually ever since that relationship I have No,

Kayley:

but what I mean, I mean, you're, you're clearly changing course, but have you actually said, because it's like we make agreements all the time with the enemy. Sure. You know, we, we agree, agree with a lie of, I'm never gonna find a woman in the church. Right. I'm afraid to. And so it's like sometimes the enemy's like, well, I still get to hold you accountable to that. Sure. You made the agreement and you haven't broken it.

Renn:

Yeah.

Kayley:

And so that's why I was, I was wondering if you have,

Renn:

there's a lot of power in, in that affirmations, breaking agreements coming in, coming into, um, even like a, like a word, like commitment to the Lord. Like Yeah. It's part of like a covenantal exchange, you know? Yeah. And, and allowing him to be faithful in the ways that we align ourselves. And, uh, I feel like I have done that and, and, and maybe not such like a ritualistic way. Mm-hmm. Like, like, you know, stand in front of the mirror and like say thing. I don't think I've ever done that. Um, but through counseling, yes. Through, uh, being pastored. Yeah. Uh, opening up to my pastors at Legacy and Yep. Legacy Nashville. What up? And, uh, I mean, they've seen me like, you know, come before them in, you know, messy, vulnerable ways to be like, Hey, I need to confess some things. I need to do some things better. Will you hold me to this? Will you like, will you know where my heart is and how messed up it is? And then help me get better. Um, and I think, I think that's the thing that without that I would not be in a healthier place. Mm. Like

Kayley:

what would you say to the guy that's about to embark on a, on equally yoked relationship?

Renn:

Um, I would say your strongest desires are not your deepest desires.

Kayley:

That's good. Yeah. That's it. That's good.

Renn:

I think men, men fall into an easy trap. Mm-hmm. Of like, and, and maybe it's a cultural thing. I think sexuality is a huge trap. For men. Mm-hmm. And maybe for women as well. I don't mm-hmm. I'm not gonna make a, a claim about something I can't relate to. But, um, you know, pay attention to the type of life you have with someone. You know, when I, I had a conversation with a friend of mine, Brock Baker, and he was just like, man, we just know someone who all she wants is someone she can suffer with. Well, and I was like, what? They didn't, that's interesting.

Kayley:

That's so interesting.

Renn:

He was like, yeah, we talked to this girl. And she just, like, ever since the pandemic, she realized like it was just so, there was so much suffering everywhere. And she said that any relationship she observed where people couldn't suffer well together failed. Wow. And I was like real, I think. I think that just put things in just perspective for me. Yeah, totally. And so I, I want someone who, when I'm at my worst and they're at their worst, we can still hold each other up. Yep. And in, in alignment with what are both my deepest desires and obviously hers.'cause I'm gonna have to make sacrifices to facilitate her desires. Mm-hmm. And, um, and that's, you know, I think that's learning to grow in love together Totally. Is like, how do my sacrifices actually kill something selfish in me, but bring me into more like, fulfillment in yoking ourselves together. Yeah. Like, how, how is my sacrifice today going to mean I can depend on her tomorrow? Mm-hmm. And, and finding someone else who's as, who's as willing to make those sacrifices, you know? And then now we get into a whole other conversation, which is like empaths and narcissists. Yes. Um, you know, I'm on the empath list, so I get a lot of, uh. And, and while in other times of my life, I think because of my fear, I have operated as a narcissist, you know? Mm-hmm. To protect myself. Sure. I can never do this. That's a very narcissistic thing to say. Mm. I was there, you know? Um, and so learning this constant struggle of like, who is gonna, you know, bear the burden with me. Yeah. Who is gonna be the equal yoke in any part of a future together?

Kayley:

You know, as I was reading about the yoke, one thing stuck out to me, and it w basically the phrase like, the yoke doesn't break. Which has a lot of implications. So as long as you're aligned with that person, you're in the yoke with the yoke is not gonna break. And I mean, how many times do we see men and women in relationships where they're trying to fix their partner? Yeah. Oh, let me be their hero. Let me be their person. Let me grow them up. Meanwhile, it's like the yoke that they're in is not gonna break. And they're seeing the fruit of being in that yoke is, well, now I'm weaker than I was. Now I'm reverting, I'm going back to old tendencies, things that I grew out of and matured out of. Oh, and also I'm going in circles. And I saw that happen with me in my last relationship. Like I would be diminished. Like I started acting and behaving in ways. I'm like, wait a second, I'm. I'm more mature than this. I grew out of this a long time ago. What's going on? And it's because I was with someone that actually wasn't calling me higher. We weren't operating in the same way or out of the same spirit even. And so, but thinking about the idea of like, whatever you put on, whenever you put that yoke on, it's not gonna break. The only time you don't, you're not in that alignment is when you leave the alignment. And that requires a breakup, a separation. A removal. And it, it's crazy. Like anytime I left an unequally oaked relationship, I had flourishing that happened in my life. Sure, yeah. Because all of a sudden I wasn't bound to something that was making me go in circles or diminishing my strength. Yeah. It's kind of nuts sucks, but I mean, I mean, it's good for me. Yeah. But you know,

Renn:

and I think that's maybe like if, if I, because I believe in the blessing of God on a person's life and my life, you know, I, I think I expect. I've seen it happen in a bunch of my friends' lives. They find the person that's their forever person, they get married and immediately their business escalates to the next level. They're like, man, that's good. The favor of God is on covenant. And the favor of God blesses something that reveals a part of who he is towards us. That's so good. Um, and I think that there's a favor that rests on people when they find someone that is gonna be the one who makes them more, who they are, their partner.

Kayley:

That's so good. Well, thank you for talking about the Yoking. Um, I wanna switch gears and talk about something different. Okay. We don't have to do a deep dive into it, but I am curious, I wanna know the meanest thing a Christian has ever said to you.

Renn:

The meanest thing. The meanest thing. Put me on the spot.

Kayley:

Like what is, I mean, maybe they haven't said it to you. Maybe you said it.

Renn:

Ooh, I think a lot about this. You do. I think more about the mean things I've said than mean things. I,

Kayley:

it's because you're an empath. Right. Probably I do the same. I'm like, God forbid that came out of my mouth or whatever. You Yeah.

Renn:

Yeah. You're just like walking through your day and it just hits you. You're like, I, you could have changed that person's life. Yes. I think about that's something hurtful that you said to them,

Kayley:

Lord, please, Lord, please forgive me and heal them. Anybody that I've hurt in the past, please Lord forgive me and heal them. Yes. Yes. But has anybody like in the church hurt you? Because I think everybody, I think in church, has experienced church hurt in some way. I mean, there's tons of people that aren't in church anymore because of church hurt.

Renn:

Yeah. I think I know what my answer is. Okay. Lay it on me silence.

Kayley:

Silence.

Renn:

I had a, a guy that I really looked up to and I, I can't explain his role in my life other than the fact he was certainly a spiritual father. Um, I would say I spent as much time with his family. As my own. Mm-hmm. And in many ways, he felt like a father to me. And, uh, there was a night, I had a really bad night and, uh, this is bringing in a whole other dynamic of conversation, but I was having a, a, a night. Um, I can be honest without changing the mood too much. I, I had a night where I was gonna try to take my own life.

Kayley:

Oh my gosh, Renn.

Renn:

And this was many years ago. And, um, I was about tw 23 and, uh, I entered a very deep depression and I couldn't get outta bed for a few days. And I remember texting this guy, I was like, Hey, I don't trust myself to be alone tonight. Can you like have some can- I actually asked him to reach out to my parents and ask my parents. I might get emotional. I was so ashamed 'cause of the, the place that I was in and how pathetic I felt, I couldn't even ask my own father if I could stay at their house.

Kayley:

Wow.

Renn:

Even though I knew I couldn't be trusted alone. And uh, you know, part of that is like I, you never wanna disappoint your dad. Yeah, of course not. So I asked him to ask for my parents' permission for me to stay at my parents' house that night. And I, uh, got like coffee with him the next day and we talked through everything. And then inexplicably, there's no earthly reason that I can fathom, he started just not responding to any of my texts and any of my calls. And he went from being like the most important person in my life that wasn't my own family, to just completely not having time for me. And I never. I never knew what to do with that. And it really, it was such a, I still don't really know what to do with it. I, I, I've come up with an imaginary scenario that's helped me think about it.

Kayley:

Okay.

Renn:

And in my mind he, I was such a big part of their family that maybe his wife said, Hey, you need to take care of your own family and if you keep opening our house up to people who are not your family, then it's over. And, 'cause I know that there was a period of like marital struggle around the same time. Mm-hmm. And in my mind, I forgave him by thinking he had to keep his family together. And I respect that. But I really wish he had just said like, Hey man, as much as you need someone right now, I would love to be that person, but there's an ultimatum placed on me. I can't be here for you.

Kayley:

Yeah.

Renn:

However, I can help from the sidelines while I'm trying to get my own family together. That's the, that's the story in my mind. But it's a completely imaginary story.

Kayley:

Wow.

Renn:

But I, I felt so many things after that. I felt like I was

Kayley:

betrayed.

Renn:

Betrayed. I felt like, oh. Because I was useless to him.'cause I was also volunteering at a bunch of his ministries and like, oh, maybe all of a sudden I'm no longer any use to a church leader. So I, I, I was resentful towards church leaders. Wow. And, um, I, it, it, it kinda like sent me down a path of deconstruction and all that. And, um, and it was, and it just, like, it took me years later. I know this sounds crazy, but there's a hormone called HCG. Have you heard of this stuff? No. It's like a, it's called. Human. Yeah, right. Human growth hormone or something. Oh, I don't, yeah. I read about it from some hippie book and it was like, yeah, if you take this hormone, you can like lose weight really fast. And I was like, awesome, I'm gonna lose some weight. And uh, I started taking this like hormone that apparently mothers produce when they're pregnant. Oh. And I think I that maybe somebody else can correct me on this. Somebody else look up the science.'cause not a, yeah. Somebody else comment on this. I'm not a reliable source. Definitely go to Wikipedia or something. Uh, but I was taking this little supplement and it was supposed to like, speed up my metabolism and make me like, ripped is what I thought it was gonna do, but it just made me like really like bipolar. Oh shoot. It was like, it was like messing with my emotions so bad. I, I guess the ways that a, a pregnant woman probably has fluctuations and emotions. Mm-hmm. But as much as it can affect a man, I don't know. And I remember I was driving a long road trip and all of a sudden it, it was raining and I was, I just started sobbing. Because at I was at a point in my life where I realized that re regardless of how it hurt, I needed to forgive and I needed to take steps to forgive. And I pulled over in like a McDonald's parking lot or a gas station parking lot, and it's raining and I'm crying. I can't see the road. And I'm like, I don't trust myself to drive. And I just call these people from like this really hard time in my life and I just left them all voicemails and I'm just, I probably sounded like a lunatic. I was sobbing. I was like, I just, it's been a long time and I just want you to know I forgive you and I bless you. And, and you know what's interesting is like nobody that I called from that time period of my life and this, including this guy, nobody even called me back.

Kayley:

No one called you back.

Renn:

Nobody even called me back. And uh, and it was just a important thing for me to at least make a step towards releasing something to the Lord and allowing his like. Jesus' words are kind of terrifying when you actually look at the Sermon on the mount.

Kayley (2):

Yeah.

Renn:

And this is how you should pray. And like the prayer is like, Lord, forgive me as I forgive those who have sinned against me. Yeah. Yeah. And regardless of the emotional patterns that needed to be blocked in me, like I knew that there was a spiritual demand on me to just release people to the Lord and it, it, it wasn't gonna make me feel any less pain. It was actually gonna bring all the pain up to the surface.

Kayley (2):

Right.

Renn:

And then I have to choose what to do with that and what decisions to make while I want to die in all this, you know? Um, and, and I, you know, as pain surfaces, like that's when I'm most at risk to make terrible decisions and I'm most at risk to sin and need forgiveness. Mm-hmm. Um, not even towards God, but even in relationships. Yeah. And, uh, so like. I don't even know where the story is going, but I just remember that that silence, that cutting off in the time when I needed a support group more than ever in my life.

Kayley:

That's a hard one because that was someone that was so close to you. I think oftentimes when I think about Christians being mean to Christians, it's typically strangers. Like people that are judgmental towards another and they say something unkind and, but it, it's actually true. It's the people that we put our hope and trust in that when they abandon us, it feels, it feels like a wound that just won't heal. Yeah. It's, it's deep man.

Renn:

Can I quote something?

Kayley:

Yeah.

Renn:

Not to interrupt you though.

Kayley:

No. Quote, quote it,

Renn:

it is deep. I remember, uh, there's a guy named Bill Johnson Yep. In California, and I was there at a, a church service he was speaking at, and he just grabbed the mic. It was really quiet moment after worship and he just goes, I'm gonna give you guys a freebie tonight. Usually he tells a joke. He's usually really funny. Then he gets into a sermon. He just goes, you will always become what the most important person in your life thinks about you.

Kayley:

Ooh. that's crazy. Okay, so who's the most important person in your life, and what do they think about you?

Renn:

Well, yeah,

Kayley:

that's a good question. That's a great

Renn:

question to ask at any point in your life.

Kayley:

Oh, wow. That's really good. Okay.

Renn:

it's, it's amazing the power of opening your heart to someone over your own life and destiny. Yes. And then when that ruptures, you know, you're left like feeling a sense of no purpose. I mean, everything comes into, everything comes into question.

Kayley:

Well, and it's okay for the most important person in your life to be Jesus. And in fact, I think he probably wants that. Mm-hmm. Because what Jesus thinks about me, you anyone listening, that is the truth. That is the thing to become. I wanna know, I wanna be what Jesus sees me as. Because oftentimes I'm walking around with my opinion of myself and not his right. And my opinion of myself is not that great. I mean, I have always been a people pleaser, a perfectionist, all these things. And so when I, you don't

Renn:

love yourself Kayley.

Kayley:

What?

Renn:

You don't love yourself.

Kayley:

Honestly, I just came out of like a moment of self-loathing. Oh no. And God's like, Hey, I need to heal that in you because it's, it's affecting how I can bless you. Wow. And because again, when you make agreements with the enemy of, oh, well I'm this and this, I'm never gonna have this, I'm always gonna be this, like all of those ugly agreements, God's like, okay, you're agreeing with the enemy and I wanna bless you and this needs to be broken off so I can come in and bless you. And um, and so we just worked on this like a couple weeks ago and God blew my mind. There was a moment that I had such, uh, an amount of self hatred that come, that came into my life. This was in 2023, not even that long ago. There was an experience and immediately so much self-loathing came in and I, I do this process of prayer where I, I want the Lord to heal me of those, of those wounds, of those experiences. And so God, I'll be like, God, what wounded me in this experience? That then left his led to self hatred. And he told me, he said, fear. And I said, well, what about the fear wounded me? And he said. You were afraid that you'd lose me? In that moment because I had done something that I completely was ashamed of and regretted. And in that moment it was true. It's like the deep part of me, that deep thing in me was terrified that I was going to lose God. Mm-hmm. And that all the things that we had been working together was gonna be forfeited based on one thing. And um, and he was so gracious to me, and I, I said, well, will you replace it with something? And he said, yes, Cherith. And I was like, what is Cherith? And I remember scribbling it down as if I like, did I really hear that correctly? And it's C-H-E-R-I-T-H and there's alternative spellings of this word. But then I just look it up on Google. I'm like, well, what's Cheri? And Cheri is the brook that Elijah drank from when he was in the wilderness during the famine. And God brought ravens to bring him food and supply him. And I just felt like God was saying to me like, Kayley, in the moments where you are legit in the wilderness. I will never leave you even in your driest, most forsaken times, I will always be your supply. I am not going anywhere. And of course I just lost it. Right? Like, but that's who he is. Like God wants to heal your, your broken memories and your hurtful moments. Like so that moment of realizing that he was ghosting you, he wants to heal that in, you give it a new name, which is so good. Um, man, thanks for sharing that, Renn. That was really great. Okay. We don't, we don't have a lot of time left and so I, I wanna do something. Renn had a great idea for today's episode. Oh, he suggested that we do 20 second sermons.

Renn:

Hallelujah.

Kayley:

And so now that we've gone really deep, which I didn't expect that we were gonna go there. I mean, I guess I should,

Renn:

I thought it was gonna be funny.

Kayley:

I thought it was gonna be funny. I mean, I did laugh, but let's see. Let's see what we got going on with this. I've got some ideas here and. I want you to give me a 2O second sermon, so the first idea I got for you, I want a sermon on when God ghosts you.

Renn:

Oh. Well actually it's a good thing that Jesus went away 'cause he wasn't gonna ghost us. He was gonna send the helper to us and he was holy ghosting us. Amen.

Kayley:

He was holy ghosting us. Oh, that's pretty good. That was probably 20 seconds. All right, let's keep going. Okay. Uh, next title, 3% battery.

Renn:

Wow. You know, some of these days you guys are just walking around. You got all the things going on, everything's on your mind. I. And what you forgot to realize is that you have to plug into the source. Ooh, you are at a dangerous place. You could fall down into temptation, into your old ways, but if you just plug in to the Holy Ghost, he will give you what you need to recharge and accomplish everything in your life.

Kayley:

I love that you're kind of taking us to black church right now. Sorry. It's really getting there. It's kind of good.

Renn:

TD Jakes, come on.

Kayley:

TD Jakes. I love it,

Renn:

Bishop.

Kayley:

I love it. Okay. The lost remote.

Renn:

The lost remote. You know, I liken the Kingdom of Heaven to a 85 inch flat screen, 4K tv whose remote had been lost, but a man knew that it was in the cushions of a couch. His wife had sold that couch. Oof. But he went out with his. Lunch money that week, and he found it on Facebook marketplace and he invested all of his money into that couch.

Kayley (2):

Oh.

Renn:

And he left the remote buried so that his wife could no longer watch HGTV on that 4K tv.

Kayley:

Wow. Okay. So you, you, you kind, you kind of got into a parable there.

Renn:

where I went with it. I don't know that, that's interesting. That's

Kayley:

just

Renn:

where my, that's just where it went.

Kayley:

That's an interesting take. No

Renn:

regrets.

Kayley:

Do you think you have, you think you have enough to do like one or two more?

Renn:

What do we got? Give it to me best one of

Kayley:

couch.

Renn:

Okay.

Kayley:

Sweeping under the couch.

Renn:

Sweeping under the couch. Oh. See, when God comes into our lives. His blood goes to the lowest place. And some of us, we think we need to clean up our lives for the Lord, and we're just gonna get the dust off that we can see. But Uhuh, mm-hmm. God wants to get a total deep clean. Amen. Amen. And he's gonna take that brush and he's gonna sweep under all those couches. He's gonna get behind the bookshelf. He's gonna get back there behind the TV where everything's plugged in, and it gets all dusty. He's going to take all the dust off the blinds, and at the end of the day, you are gonna be clean, washed spotless, like the blood of the lamb.

Kayley:

From the inside out.

Renn:

From the inside out. In

Kayley:

Jesus' name.

Renn:

In Jesus' name.

Kayley:

Okay. Let's do, let's do one more. The squeaky floorboard.

Renn:

The squeaky floorboard. Some days the foundations of our lives seem to falter and we might be. Looking at our house thinking that we are stable, secure, and firm. But then it just takes one midnight walk to the refrigerator to grab, grab a glass of milk, and then we, we step on that squeaky floorboard.

Kayley:

Hmm. What do you think that squeaky floorboard is saying?

Renn:

I think I failed. I think this is my first time getting stumped. Uh, this is my first time getting stumped. I was gonna say, we need, we need strong foundation. And I didn't get there.

Kayley:

I have is not enough an idea. I have an idea for the squeaky floorboard. It just hit me. Oh, give to. Because God's voice is like that small little whisper. And so in that midnight hour when you're going to the fridge to get that cup of milk, it's in the moment when we don't have a busy schedule, we're not watching tv, the whole house is asleep, that we can actually hear the squeaky floorboard. Let's go. And when we hear that squeaky floorboard, we are hearing the voice of the Lord saying, child, I have a, I have a new word for you. Are you ready for this new word?

Renn:

Yes. Watch where you step.

Kayley:

Watch where you step Jesus Name. Watch where you step. Oh, so good. y'all, this has been really fun. This is, this again is Renn Anderson. Tell everybody where they can find you.

Renn:

Yeah, you can find me, uh, on all the social medias as Renn official. You can find my music online under just my name, Renn, Renn. And uh, you can forget about me forever if you didn't like what you heard.

Kayley:

I hope you learned some good stuff Renn's got some great testimonies here. And you know, just follow him, reach out to him. And then also follow Bible Bish. Go on the biblebish.com leave us a testimony, drop a line. Let me know if anything struck you. If any of what we said led to some breakthrough, because I wanna celebrate it. I wanna maybe even potentially talk about it on air.'cause this is why we're here. We're here to set people free. We're here to give you the keys to maybe get in a new car, a new car that's gonna take you to a better destiny.'cause you've been doing the same thing. You've been yoked to the wrong person, to the wrong thing. And God wants to set you free. He wants to put you in a greater place. And so. Give us a line, and in the meantime, I'll talk to you later.